D&D General Why are we fighting?

[DND_Reborn]

No. The Orcs are hunting game, the PCs are more or less hunting Orc as part of dealing with a bigger threat.

Well, without knowing precisely what is happening, do they have to "hunt" the orcs or just drive them away, etc.? In other words, does "killing" have to be the only solution?

A single Orc, yes. They travel in groups, though, as adventurers aren't the only dange rin the woods.

There might be more orcs, but they only see the one.

Given that the PCs' mission is, in part, to take out the Orcs (ultimately it's to take out the boss behind them, but the Orcs are in the way), that would be a very unexpected outcome.

If the ultimate goal is to take out the boss behind the orcs, perhaps the orcs can be allies in taking out the boss, depending on their relationship to it (are the servants, slaves, allies, etc.?).

Think of it this way: if you go back to the old D&D cartoons from the 80's, when did the party ever have to kill something to get on to the next part of the adventure or finish it? Not often, IIRC.

There's nothing wrong with it, if your group enjoys that theme, but I am simply addressing the points outlined in the video in the OP.

 

[Micah Sweet]

yeah if the PCs are in hostile territory I’d expect stealth with the main objective being avoid the hunting party and carry on to the Base - stealth check resolves encounter, move on.

If they cant stealth their way pass then is the objective to kill all the orcs in the area? Or do the PCs capture an orc in order to get information on the base defences? - as DM in this scenario I’d make sure the hunting orcs have a bit of useful information, so PCs learn that not killing monsters might be more useful than wholesale slaughter

What do they do once they have the information from the captive orc (assuming they could get it)?

The issue is the logistics problem of dealing with prisoners.

 

[Lanefan]

Well, without knowing precisely what is happening, do they have to "hunt" the orcs or just drive them away, etc.? In other words, does "killing" have to be the only solution?

The options are either killing them or turning them to peaceful ends. The latter is extremely unlikely.

There really isn't anywhere to drive them away to - if they stop raiding the village the PCs left from it'll be because they found somewhere else to raid instead, which while great for the one village ain't so great for the next.

The villagers also made it crystal clear to the PCs that if their sortie failed, they feared that any retaliation would come down hard on the village - maybe even to the point of wiping them out. The PCs are operating under this assumption; the reality is there's far fewer Orcs up there than the villagers think there are, and even a halfway-successful attempt will knock their numbers back to the point where - unless the boss (a Frost Giant) herself comes out - the villagers are probably safe for now.

That said, if the PCs cause enough trouble that the Giant herself gets hacked off and responds in force, that'll be a different story. But that would take some doing - she's pretty complacent these days.

Where it sits right now is a) the PCs have already knocked off about 1/3 of the Orcs (though they don't realize this, they're not sure if they've even made a dent in the Orc numbers) and b) the PCs are slowly coming to realize there's more to this complex/adventure than they might have been expecting. (one of the PCs downed a potion of gaseous form and went exploring, finding lots of rooms and hallways and some unexpected non-Orc monsters further in)

If the ultimate goal is to take out the boss behind the orcs, perhaps the orcs can be allies in taking out the boss, depending on their relationship to it (are the servants, slaves, allies, etc.?).

The relationship is that the boss is bigger and meaner than they are, and also (in their eyes) bigger and meaner than the PCs; never mind all the boss' not-quite-as-big friends and allies who are still also bigger and meaner than the Orcs. The Orcs don't know it (and neither do the PCs, as yet) but their main reason for being there is to be the expendable and easily replaceable "crumple zone" in case of any serious resistance by the locals.

 

[Andvari]

My players typically tie up prisoners they expect might not leave the area for good. When possible they also bring them to the local jail. Sometimes they execute them, but that is less common.

Most captives are happy to be alive and won’t trouble the party further. Mostly out of fear more than anything else. Runners are the real problem.

 

[Micah Sweet]

My players typically tie up prisoners they expect might not leave the area for good. When possible they also bring them to the local jail. Sometimes they execute them, but that is less common.

Most captives are happy to be alive and won’t trouble the party further. Mostly out of fear more than anything else. Runners are the real problem.

Do the captives mostly behave that way because it makes sense in the setting for them to do so, or because it's easier to for the table for them to not be an issue?

Also, how friendly is your PCs relationship with the local law? In my experience, most PCs are too independently minded to essentially act as law enforcement, and most law enforcement officials are very leery of vigilantes.

 

[Hussar]

In the adventure I'm running right now, one of the wandering monster possibilities in the forest is a hunting party of half a dozen Orcs. They're out hunting game animals to augment the diet for people at the main base (the PCs' initial goal), and if on sighting or encountering the PCs even one of the Orcs is able to flee back to base to report, the PCs' job just got a lot more difficult as the place will be on high alert: there's invaders in the woods.

All of which seems perfectly reasonable on the Orcs' part; meanwhile it's very much in the PCs' interests to make sure none of the Orcs get away should they meet any.

But that’s the problem. The players cannot know that. So the players will always assume that every encounter will return to bite them in the ass if they don’t completely exterminate every npc.

It’s just reinforcing behaviour. Even if only one in four encounters has this rider, every encounter has to be treated like it’s true.

After all, why couldn’t the fleeing orc so discourage the others that they suffer penalties when the pcs show up?

But that never happens. It only ever works against the players to not kill everyone.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But that’s the problem. The players cannot know that. So the players will always assume that every encounter will return to bite them in the ass if they don’t completely exterminate every npc.

It’s just reinforcing behaviour. Even if only one in four encounters has this rider, every encounter has to be treated like it’s true.

After all, why couldn’t the fleeing orc so discourage the others that they suffer penalties when the pcs show up?

But that never happens. It only ever works against the players to not kill everyone.

Seems like you'd have to establish some genre conventions to avoid that. Not really the way D&D works generally.

 

[Hussar]

Do the captives mostly behave that way because it makes sense in the setting for them to do so, or because it's easier to for the table for them to not be an issue?

Also, how friendly is your PCs relationship with the local law? In my experience, most PCs are too independently minded to essentially act as law enforcement, and most law enforcement officials are very leery of vigilantes.

Again, this all sort of meshes together. If the players don’t kill everyone, the dm just keeps putting up problems and roadblocks until the players just start killing everyone to avoid them. Every prisoner will suicidally try to escape or cause problems. Every neutral npc is automatically “quite leery” and May as well be hostile.

It’s such a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Again, this all sort of meshes together. If the players don’t kill everyone, the dm just keeps putting up problems and roadblocks until the players just start killing everyone to avoid them. Every prisoner will suicidally try to escape or cause problems. Every neutral npc is automatically “quite leery” and May as well be hostile.

It’s such a self fulfilling prophecy.

An NPC is "hostile" if they attack you or clearly intend to do so. If a PC decides to strike preemptively, that has more to do with them than the NPC.

Not that there aren't plenty of reasons why that might happen.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It's basic operant conditioning; if the mouse get a shock for doing something, it stops doing that thing.