why are wizards so weak?

[Dagger75]

In all the groups I have been in or ran, its alway kill the Wizard first. I think they are powerful. After 5th level they are feared.

 

[MonsterMash]

I really don't consider Wizards to be underpowered in 3e or 3.5, after all in OD&D at 1st level you had one spell per day, potentially 1 hit point, virtually no weapons available, while in 3e its 3 level 0 spells and 1+ level 1 per day minimum, max hp at first (maybe only 4 points) and weapons available include missile weapons like crossbows.

Now if you said Sorcerors are a weak class I might agree.

 

[IronWolf]

Every PC still tries to kill enemy spellcasters (especially wizards) before they attack equal CR melee types or rogues. They know that ignoring an enemy wizard for just a few rounds can turn the tide of the battle, while ignoring a melee type can usually be done without ill effect.

We had this table turned on us last session. A very powerful (okay, really, really really powerful) wizard was in a battle where four goblins were present. Folks focused firepower on the wizard who was darn near impossible to hit and even more so with the low level spells in our arsenal at the time. Turns out, once the goblins were dead the wizard stopped his attacks, threw us a bag of gems, thanked us for the help and left. Had we worked on killing the goblins sooner we would have sustained less damage from him to begin with.

 

[BryonD]

I just couldn't fathom why the Wizard should have so few hps, when creatures of the Fey type have at least a d6.

I don't have a problem with the d4 hit die. But this is still a very good point.


A d6 hit die wouldn't really be a problem.
Though cutting their BAB down to 1/4 or something wouldn't be a bad idea either, imo......

 

[fafhrd]

Though cutting their BAB down to 1/4 or something wouldn't be a bad idea either, imo......

I dunno. The ray and energy weapon spells might be a little too useless were that the case.

 

[Dagger75]

I always wanted to toy with giving d6 Hit point the first 4 levels then going down to d4.

 

[WizarDru]

Wizards are just fine the way they are. They are neither overpowered nor underpowered. Dangerous? Sure. Vulnerable? Sure, especially at low levels. But consider that, at low levels, they also have access to some of the best defenses and attacks. And I can assure you, a 25th level paladin wielding a Holy Avenger versus an evil Outsider? Not Pretty. No spellcaster in my game has EVER done in excess of 300 points of damage in one round...but the paladin has, and the arcane archer routinely does between 150-200 points of damage against the right kinds of targets.

Where the wizard excels is at being able to compensate for any kind of enemy. Tough melee character? Dominate, Dance or Enfeeble him. Undead? Disintegrate him. Enemy Spell Caster? Exhaust, Idiocize or Enervate him, among dozens of options. Need a breather? Maze somebody.

And as was mentioned above, availability of level-appropriate spells doesn't translate into more kill-power. Utlity, yes, but violent power? No.

 

[Mercule]

I always wanted to toy with giving d6 Hit point the first 4 levels then going down to d4.

I can see where you're coming from, here, but I really don't think it's good design to change-up the HD mid-stream in a class progression. This is one of my issues with some of the racial substitution levels.

Basically, I think standardizing and applying formulas to certain progressions (HD, BAB, Saves) was a major plus for 3E. I don't like anything that putzes with those.

 

[BryonD]

I dunno. The ray and energy weapon spells might be a little too useless were that the case.

Heh, I didn't think that would come up so fast.
Better to give attck roll spells a +1/2 caster level bonus to hit then have wizards be so good at overall combat. Again, imo.

(And yes, I think 1/2 BAB is fairly solid combat capability)

 

[Particle_Man]

Hmmm...so it seems that the wizard is good for battlefield control, buffing friends, debuffing enemies, etc., but lousy for direct damage.

So I guess it is Evokers that are disproportionally weak?

And for the dangerous lich above: that must have been one hell of a programmed image if everyone either failed their will save or didn't interact with it while still being occupied with it. What was the image of, may I ask?