Why can't clerics cast "Identify" and "Analyse Dweomer"?

[dead]

I was just wondering why, throughout the history of D&D, clerics (indeed, all divine casters) have not been able to cast Identify and Analyse Dweomer.

At the moment, if a priest wants to identify a magic item, he'll have to go grovelling in front of a wizard and beg him to cast it.

It seems that clerics are just as proficient in *creating* magic items as wizards are, yet they are incapable of identifying them when they find them.

I don't like to change the rules too much, but in my game I've allowed clerics access to these spells (except at one level higher to cast than a wizard casts it). Am I doing the right thing? Or should things be kept as is?

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Most of the arcane/divine distinctions are rather... well... arcane. Aside from making clerics even more versatile (though not really any more powerful), I see no reason not to give them the identify tree.

However, wizards are more adept at creating magic items: they can get a significant number of item creation feats as bonus feats.

 

[LeapingShark]

Good question. I don't see any problem with adding Identify to the cleric list (though I probably wouldn't myself because I usually prefer to stick with the sacred cows, even though this isn't all that sacred).

To maintain the flavor and stay closer to the existing rules, perhaps you could allow the cleric use their contact-diety type spells to help identify the magic contained in magic items.

For example, perhaps the existing Augury (2nd lvl Clr) spell might be useable on items and treasure. "Weal" perhaps could mean beneficial magic, "Woe" could be cursed or evil magic, and "Nothing" could be that it's not magic at all.

The existing Divination (4th lvl Clr) spell could return a "short phrase, rhyme, or poem" describing all the abilities of the magic contained in the item (if any).

Of course I'm just brainstorming here, I haven't actually tried this alternate rule.

 

[dead]

Good question. I don't see any problem with adding Identify to the cleric list (though I probably wouldn't myself because I usually prefer to stick with the sacred cows, even though this isn't all that sacred).

To maintain the flavor and stay closer to the existing rules, perhaps you could allow the cleric use their contact-diety type spells to help identify the magic contained in magic items.

For example, perhaps the existing Augury (2nd lvl Clr) spell might be useable on items and treasure. "Weal" perhaps could mean beneficial magic, "Woe" could be cursed or evil magic, and "Nothing" could be that it's not magic at all.

The existing Divination (4th lvl Clr) spell could return a "short phrase, rhyme, or poem" describing all the abilities of the magic contained in the item (if any).

Of course I'm just brainstorming here, I haven't actually tried this alternate rule.

Ya, they sound like good ideas. They definitely have a more *ritualistic* type feal which is good for the divine. While the existing Identify and Analyse Dweomer have a kind of *analytical* approach which alludes to arcane practices.

 

[FireLance]

I'm thinking clerics can't identify magic items because "Oh god, what does this thing do?" is not a particularly evocative prayer .

Seriously, though - clerics with the Magic domain do get access to Identify as a 2nd-level domain spell. The domain power also allows them to use staffs and scrolls with Analyze Dweomer, if they need to.

Anyway, that same wizard has to go begging the cleric for healing spells. From a meta-game perspective, the rules are set up so that characters usually can't do everything by themselves. This encourages inter-dependence and co-operation.

 

[Gez]

Actually, clerics can cast those spells. They just need to be Mystic Theurges! (Then they're also wizards, but what the heck.)

 

[vulcan_idic]

It seems to me that an arcane magic user should be more proficient at identifying magic items created in an arcane manner, and divine users should be more proficient at identifying magic items created in a divinve manner, but that's just me...

 

[johnsemlak]

I agree with Leaping Shark's assessment. Clerics do have access to spells that could identify items.

Is their a domain that grants identify?

 

[green slime]

I agree with Leaping Shark's assessment. Clerics do have access to spells that could identify items.

Is their a domain that grants identify?

READ FireLance's post above.

 

[Staffan]

It's because wizards are generally more adept at dealing with the forces of magic itself. Sure, clerics get detect magic, dispel magic, and similar spells, but only wizards get spells like identify (well, other than clerics with the Magic domain), arcane sight, mnemonic enhancer, or analyze dweomer. Clerics generally aren't interested in magic for its own sake the way wizards are, they just use it as a tool to spread the word and help the faithful.