DungeonmasterCal
First Post
Bloodright??? You mean Birthright? Right?
Why D&D is slowly cutting its own throat.
- Thread starter Celebrim
- Start date
Storm Raven
First Post
Your argument would be cogent, except for the fact that adevtures are not very good money makers. TSR, in its heyday, made its money by selling copies of rule books, not settings. Getting into the setting business was a method to generate sales for the rule books more than anything else.
In point of fact, the same criticism you level at GURPS (SJGames' published material is mostly of interest to GMs) is equally applicable to adventures and settings: they are mostly of interest to GMs. Despite the many fond memories many of us have about things like T1-8, A1-4, and the GDQ series, all the information we have says that they weren't very profitable for TSR.
In point of fact, the same criticism you level at GURPS (SJGames' published material is mostly of interest to GMs) is equally applicable to adventures and settings: they are mostly of interest to GMs. Despite the many fond memories many of us have about things like T1-8, A1-4, and the GDQ series, all the information we have says that they weren't very profitable for TSR.
Kid Charlemagne
I am the Very Model of a Modern Moderator
I think his point is "Modules Build Campaign Worlds." And since WoTC doesn't do modules to any great extent any more, the intellectual property (and how can "intellectual property" be an offensive term?) is lessened.
I disagree - I think Eberron's value as intellectual property is being built by the novels and (especiallly) by the upcoming D&D Online, which is Eberron based.
And if WoTC was cutting its own throat, D&D wouldn't be selling mroe now than at any point in the last 15 years - according to Charles Ryan the D&D Brand Manager, who posted as much around 6 months ago.
I disagree - I think Eberron's value as intellectual property is being built by the novels and (especiallly) by the upcoming D&D Online, which is Eberron based.
And if WoTC was cutting its own throat, D&D wouldn't be selling mroe now than at any point in the last 15 years - according to Charles Ryan the D&D Brand Manager, who posted as much around 6 months ago.
Celebrim said:
I don't think this is at all true, economically speaking. The whole point of the OGL and the d20 licenses is to allow others to produce the products that aren't big moneymakers - and that includes modules. Modules may be what nostalgic players remember, but they aren't what earned the big $$.
Not only that, I think the heyday of "great modules" was back during 1e days, rather than "always". And they're only really great in retrospect, in that my gaming style has greatly changed. Those modules simply wouldn't cut the mustard for me now. These days, if I weren't homebrewing, my needs would be better served with well-created and detailed setting materials.
Celebrim
Legend
philreed said:
My irony detector is buzzing, but if you want everything condenced down to a few short words then...
"The fluff is more valuable than the crunch"
I'm trying to make an argument that even if most of your money is being made at any given time on the crunch, that its the fluff that keeps people playing the game and keeps up peoples appetite for the crunch. If you neglect the fluff for too long, then you lose out to someone who has got great fluff, even if your crunch is better than his crunch.
So for example, a comment like:
"Your argument would be cogent, except for the fact that adevtures are not very good money makers. TSR, in its heyday, made its money by selling copies of rule books, not settings. Getting into the setting business was a method to generate sales for the rule books more than anything else."
somewhat misses the point. I'm not arguing that crunch isn't a money maker, and in fact is the best short term investment. I'm arguing that not enough long term investments are being made, and that your fluff is your long term investment. Thus the 'slowly cutting its own throat'.
"In point of fact, the same criticism you level at GURPS (SJGames' published material is mostly of interest to GMs) is equally applicable to adventures and settings: they are mostly of interest to GMs. Despite the many fond memories many of us have about things like T1-8, A1-4, and the GDQ series, all the information we have says that they weren't very profitable for TSR."
Again, maybe not directly, but its all those fond memories of things like that which are primarily responsible for keeping us and bringing us back into the game.
Diaglo, you are either trying to be funny and failing, or you are an idiot. Please tell me that its the former.
Rodrigo Istalindir
Explorer
S'mon said:
Perfectly stated. The trademark and subsequent licensing value allows WotC to generate non-pnp-gaming revenue and interest that can keep the franchise alive through slow periods and the gradual decline of traditional-PnP gaming.
As I recall, Fallout was going to use the GURPS rules. When a dispute arose, they dropped that and substituted there own, to no apparent detriment to sales. If tomorrow Turbine announces they've lost the D&D license, their new MMORPG will most likely bite the dust.
GURPS never generated the IP that D&D did because that was never the intent -- the first letter in the acronym is a dead give-away. Anecdotally, all but one of the people I have ever known that bought GURPS material bought it specifically to be adapted to other gaming systems, and this was during GURPS supposed heyday.
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If this thread is really about D&D as a brand and IP I feel it's very, very short-sighted to even consider the RPG side as relevant to the brand. In my opinion, these days, it's the computer games and novels that are important to the IP. The ONLY reason I can see that modules were important during the early days of 1e was that there weren't novels.
Seriously, how many copies of Neverwinter Nights sold compared to the PHB? What are sales comparisons between the RPG and novels?
Seriously, how many copies of Neverwinter Nights sold compared to the PHB? What are sales comparisons between the RPG and novels?
