Why di WoTC lie to us?

[delericho]

Edit: I have checked the archives for the offending statement, and couldn't find it. See my retraction in a later post in this thread.

When asked, Wizards employees stated that they were not working on 4e. They have now told us that they've been working on it for 2 years. There's your lie.

Now, there's an argument that lying, rather than stating "no comment", is good business sense, because "no comment" will be read as "yes". However, it's really short-sighted:

When Scott Rouse now says, "there will be no 4.5e," we cannot take him at his word - it would be good business sense to lie about a new edition, rather than just say "no comment". In a couple of years, when the message boards are buzzing with rumours of 5e, if a Wizards employee states "we are not working on 5e. It's not coming soon," we cannot take them at their words - it would be good business sense to lie about a new edition, rather than just say "no comment".

Incidentally, I have been of the opinion that 4e is due for quite a while now, and I am looking forward to it. So, my reaction to this is not based on anti-4e sentiment. I just do not like being lied to.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

When asked, Wizards employees stated that they were not working on 4e. They have now told us that they've been working on it for 2 years. There's your lie.

If you want to parse this statement, I believe the precise statements are like:

"We are not actively working on 4e right now." And "We have been doing 4e development for 2 years now." Or some such close approximation.

Here's the thing, it may be open to interpretation what "actively working" ona project means, though I'm easily swayed that if there was some directive to begin looking for with flaws in 3.5 and propose new solutions for the next edition, then that may not be active work, but passive examination and reflection. That still counts as doing work for 4e though in my book, its just not active work. I'd count active work as something that is your primary job at that moment. This I have no doubt truely began in earnest, active developmenet, in the past few months. They are still building it off of notes they have been taking and proposed ideas that have been gathered for 2 years or more.

By parsing it down, I don't find it a lie.

 

[delericho]

Edit: I have checked the archives for the offending statement, and couldn't find it. See my retraction in a later post in this thread.

If you want to parse this statement, I believe the precise statements are like:

"We are not actively working on 4e right now." And "We have been doing 4e development for 2 years now." Or some such close approximation.

Here's the thing, it may be open to interpretation what "actively working" ona project means...

MMV.

It is entirely possible that they very carefully inserted "right now", so that the statements were technically true (since, after all, at that exact time they were answering questions in a seminar). Or, they could have constructed the panel out of the only 3 WotC employees who weren't working on 4e, so that "we are not..." is technically true.

Frankly, though, I consider that all a part of the marketing/political doublespeak that has become all too prevalent in our society. If I have to parse exactly what you say at every step to determine the exact truth of what you're saying then I have no interest in doing so. I'll simple assume every thing you are saying is a lie and ignore you.

Or, to put it another way, I will respect WotC far more if they simply say, "yes, we lied" (and they can even add "because we determined it was good business sense") than if they try to pull an Obi-Wan-esque "what we said was true, from a certain point of view."

 

[Horacio]

They lied, as every corportation does in similar circumstances. Lies are a part of corporate capitalism, where information is often the most valuable asset.

I dislike it, I don't like being told lies. And I guess that FLGS owners and d20 editors like it a lot less than me.

IMHO we cannot blame WotC. Either you blame all the system, or you accept it.

But I would really appreciate a "We're sorry we lied, we had to do it to protect our business" statement as delericho said.

 

[delericho]

Edit: I have checked the archives for the offending statement, and couldn't find it. See my retraction in a later post in this thread.

But I would really appreciate a "We're sorry we lied, we had to do it to protect our business" statement as delericho said.

I don't think we would ever ever get one, and so I'm not actually asking for a statement of that sort. However, I actively don't want to see any attempt from WotC to claim that they didn't lie because of some technicality of linguistics. And, to their credit, I haven't seen any attempt by WotC to do that.

 

[Davewolf]

They lied, as every corportation does in similar circumstances. Lies are a part of corporate capitalism, where information is often the most valuable asset.

I dislike it, I don't like being told lies. And I guess that FLGS owners and d20 editors like it a lot less than me.

IMHO we cannot blame WotC. Either you blame all the system, or you accept it.

But I would really appreciate a "We're sorry we lied, we had to do it to protect our business" statement as delericho said.

Very true, couldn't have put it better.

 

[Baby Samurai]

Fewer copies of MM5 and other recent books would have been sold had they announced things sooner.

Yeah, I wonder how many people are going to buy the 3.5 Rules Compendium and Exemplars of Evil later this year…

 

[Mike_Lescault]

I don't think we would ever ever get one, and so I'm not actually asking for a statement of that sort. However, I actively don't want to see any attempt from WotC to claim that they didn't lie because of some technicality of linguistics. And, to their credit, I haven't seen any attempt by WotC to do that.

I'll bite. When did someone lie? Everything I've seen or been a part of has gone to great pains to make sure we were being truthful for obvious reasons, since we knew this announcement was coming.

 

[delericho]

I'll bite. When did someone lie?

(See my edits below)

I believe the statement was made at D&D Experience this winter that you weren't currently working on 4e. The statement has now been made that you've been working on 4e for 2 years. The contradiction there is obvious.

I will look for the exact quotes later - I'm currently at work, and can't spend a lot of time going through the ENWorld archives.

Edit: I've found the quote I was thinking of and... well, um...

It's from Kevin Wilson at GenCon 2006, where it was stated that WotC is not working on a 4e... that will force players to use miniatures.

The key quote from Scott Rouse talks about 4e being a ways off, that there will be an announcement, and that there are 3e products on the schedule... all of which is true, of course.

The upshot is that I was dead wrong. There was no lie.

Mike, Scott, et al, I can only apologise. I relied on my faulty memory of events instead of double-checking, where I should not have done.

 

[morbiczer]

There was no outright lie, that I'm aware of. The "products through 2008" was, as already said, a misquote that wasn't corrected. No lie there.

D&D Experience - Scott said 4E wasn't coming for a long time. Well, May 2008 is a long time from January 2007. No lie there.

These are what most people point to as the WotC lies. If there's anything, I'm not too sure about it, but as Victim said, there's little they could do but be misleading where necessary.

I can't give you a link to it, but the way I remember it, there was a statement at D&D Experience this February that 4E isn't being worked upon.

That statement was certainly "untrue". I think this can not be argued.

The "it's still a long time away" statment can be interpreted n several ways, that's true.