Why didn't Eberron click?

[WizarDru]

So in some cases, what you expected really are there; there are some misses, such as no Asian flavor cultures with samurai and such; in that respect, they dropped the ball on the Prego Promise. ("It's in there.")

I haven't read that far, but I kind of got the impression from the picture of the Orc in the rice paddy that there was some asian-flavor in there, somewhere. Not the case, I guess?

 

[Quasqueton]

. . .and Drow are from Xen'drik, . . .

The drow have become a well known race in D&D, in general. Every player knows about the drow, just like they know about orcs and goblins. [They are not the fabled, underworld boogey-men that they were in the early days of AD&D1.] But Keith Baker mentioned in the Q&A thread, that most people in Eberron would not know who or what the drow are. This, to me, is an example of how the designers did not build Eberron around the standard/accepted D&D concepts.

Apparently, a player can't understand Eberron goblins by reading the MM entry for goblins. Eberron goblins are different than D&D goblins. Etc.

I was hoping for a setting that built on the standard D&D concepts. Something that expanded on what was written in the PHB, DMG, and MM. But instead, it looks like Eberron just took the stats from those books and rewrote the flavor text. That's not what I wanted. That's not what I expected.

Quasqueton

 

[Von Ether]

The drow have become a well known race in D&D, in general. Every player knows about the drow, just like they know about orcs and goblins. [They are not the fabled, underworld boogey-men that they were in the early days of AD&D1.] But Keith Baker mentioned in the Q&A thread, that most people in Eberron would not know who or what the drow are. This, to me, is an example of how the designers did not build Eberron around the standard/accepted D&D concepts.

Apparently, a player can't understand Eberron goblins by reading the MM entry for goblins. Eberron goblins are different than D&D goblins. Etc.

I was hoping for a setting that built on the standard D&D concepts. Something that expanded on what was written in the PHB, DMG, and MM. But instead, it looks like Eberron just took the stats from those books and rewrote the flavor text. That's not what I wanted. That's not what I expected.

Quasqueton

I am confused. Do you mean every player or every characer?

Simply because if every player knows about them, then what is the deal between moving them from the Underdark to an island. Players still know they are drow there.

As far as most charcaters now knowing about the Drow, that depends on your game. My players my be able to quote drow stats, but if I say that their characters know nothing about this mysterious race, then the PC know nothing. In fact, I remember reading anything in the Drow description that says they are well known. (I could be wrong there.)

As for building on "standard D&D concepts," I would have frankly expected another FR clone, but only with the names of the nations changed.

 

[JPL]

I was hoping for a setting that built on the standard D&D concepts. Something that expanded on what was written in the PHB, DMG, and MM.

I think that setting is called "Greyhawk."

 

[Flyspeck23]

I think that setting is called "Greyhawk."

Truer words were never spoken.

 

[Quasqueton]

I think that setting is called "Greyhawk."

Not exactly. Greyhawk is AD&D1. GH *is* AD&D1.

Forgotten Realms is AD&D2. FR *is* AD&D2.

And although both have setting books for D&D3, (the FR book(s) are quite nice, but the GH book has terrible production value), they are products of their times. Yes, I know original FR came out during AD&D1. And original GH came out in OD&D. But they both took their "personalities" from AD&D1 and AD&D2 respectively. But WotC has been doing a good job of translating FR over to D&D3. But it is a translation - not an original "D&D3 world".

D&D3 needs a world that accepts the D&D3 conventions and concepts, and uses them just as GH did AD&D1, and FR did AD&D2. Eberron does not do this, though I thought that was the purpose of the new setting.

Eberron may be a fantastic and wonderful setting. I'm not saying its not -- haven't read it to know personally. But it is not core/standard D&D3. It is different. Different is not bad -- just not what I was expecting/hoping from the "new D&D3 world".

Quasqueton

 

[Funksaw]

The problem with me is that I really like Eberron's setting, but the mechanics are far too underwhelming for the pulp campaign. Steal the setting and use it with your favorite set of pulp mechanics.

 

[WizarDru]

Not exactly. Greyhawk is AD&D1. GH *is* AD&D1.

Forgotten Realms is AD&D2. FR *is* AD&D2.

I agree with the sentiment, but I think, in some ways, these statements put the cart before the horse. Greyhawk supported AD&D as much as the other way around: remember, monsters like the Drow were not a core part of the setting until the modules, ostensibly set in Greyhawk, put them there. They were no more a part of the core, in their way, then characters like Iggwilliv or Eclavadra were...that is to say, not at all, until a supplement added them.

I may be mistaken, but the same applies to 2e and the realms...creatures in Waterdeep had access to spells and items that weren't in the 2e core books, but came after.

Both settings absorbed what came after, as I'm sure Eberron will. And as far as I can tell, it's already absorbed most of it, already.

 

[Quasqueton]

GH and FR started out as basic/core/standard AD&D1 and AD&D2, and then evolved as the systems evolved.

Eberron is starting out different than basic/core/standard D&D3.

Quasqueton

 

[Von Ether]

GH and FR started out as basic/core/standard AD&D1 and AD&D2, and then evolved as the systems evolved.

Eberron is starting out different than basic/core/standard D&D3.

Quasqueton

Ah, which reneforces how I have felt about Grayhawk and FR. I respect those who like these settings, but they don't personally do anything for me.

It seems that you and I are a case of "you win some, you lose some" for WotC.