Pathfinder 1E Why Didn't Paizo Do their Own "Dragon/Dungeon?"

[Arnwyn]

From what I was told, there is enough of a difference between the magazine trade and the book trade.

Why? Beats me - I'm not a specialist in that industry.

It's that I don't understand it. It doesn't make sense to me no matter how many times either you or Paizo say it, without an explanation. (which is the reason for the post.)

Edit: Oh. Then you're probably posting at the completely wrong website.

 

[Scribble]

How are they going to (profitably) sell ad space in a magazine that isn't Dungeon or Dragon and won't be available in major retail outlets?

Probably not for as much as they went in Dragon, but I'm sure they'd still have the ability to sell ad space. Ads in gaming magazines seem to sell mainly to gaming companies/ gaming related companies. These companies know Paizo and Paizo's ability. So sure reputation alone isn't going to keep you in business, but I'm sure it counts for something when you're starting.

Would the same advertisers paid for the same add-space in these new magazines as they did with Dungeon and Dragon? Probably not, as the new mag would have been an unrpoven commodity?

But I think although they're an unproven commodity, they're not "realy" an unproven commodity. I mean (I think at least) Paizo would have a much better time selling ad space to those markets then I would... People know Paizo, what they do, and what they've done.

Again, hey maybe I just don't understand the logistics, and that is fine. I just want to understand man!

 

[Rauol_Duke]

Paizo, as a company, was starting to branch out before the ending of the Dungeon and Dragon licences. They had already started producing the GameMastery Modules, as well as many other products. For various reasons, some they have stated (see above), others they have not, they chose not to start-up another magazine and to do a monthly adventure suplement instead. By all accounts, it is doing better than expected.

 

[Scribble]

Edit: Oh. Then you're probably posting at the completely wrong website.

Possibly. But I like this site, and I know there are a lot of people here with a lot of knowledge about this stuff... (not to mention the people who made the decisions...) So I posted here. And I don't have an account at paizo... so I'd have to make one... and I'm way to lazy for that.

 

[kenobi65]

But I think although they're an unproven commodity, they're not "realy" an unproven commodity. I mean (I think at least) Paizo would have a much better time selling ad space to those markets then I would... People know Paizo, what they do, and what they've done.

Again, hey maybe I just don't understand the logistics, and that is fine. I just want to understand man!

There's two factors here:

1) Will advertisers who advertised in Dragon/Dungeon advertise in a new Paizo magazine? As you note, I think the answer would, generally, be "yes." (Although...IIRC, Dragon and Dungeon always had at least a few pages of WotC ads, and I don't think that Paizo could count on those any longer.)

2) Will they pay as much for an ad in a new Paizo magazine as they did in Dragon/Dungeon? As noted above, Paizo was skeptical about being able to get the magazine slotted into the general book trade, which apparently accounted for a significant portion of their single-copy sales. This means that overall circulation would have been lower than for Dragon/Dungeon, and, thus, they wouldn't have been able to charge as much for those ads.

 

[Rauol_Duke]

But I think although they're an unproven commodity, they're not "realy" an unproven commodity. I mean (I think at least) Paizo would have a much better time selling ad space to those markets then I would... People know Paizo, what they do, and what they've done.

Again, hey maybe I just don't understand the logistics, and that is fine. I just want to understand man!

Scrib, I don't pretend to understand the Magazine buisiness at all, but from what I gather, a new magazine wouldn't be able to have the same shelf space on newsstands that Dungeon and Dragon did (because they are highly recopgnizable names), not without spending loads of money to get that space. Therefore, they could not sell their add-space at a profitable level because the new magazine wouldn't be on as many newsstands / bookstores / etc. and therefore not been seen by as many peoples. Paizo has almost 30 employees (I think) and I'm sure they wanted to make the decision that kept all of those folks in thier jobs. What they are doing now is acting on that decision.

Could they have made another successful magazine? Maybe. Wolfgang Baur is making a heck of a shot at it, but he also doesn't have 30 employees to pay either (he uses Kobolds, which work for much cheaper).

 

[Scribble]

I'll be very curious to see how well Pathfinder does, on a subscription basis, once all of the Pathfinder subscriptions that were carryovers from Dragon/Dungeon subscriptions wear off. I suspect a lot of their initial subscriptions were from these carryovers, from people whom Paizo already had money from.

In my case, my carryover subscription got me the first three Pathfinder installments. I was very impressed with the quality...but the theme and tone weren't something that interested me, and I didn't re-up the subscription to complete this first adventure path.

Yeah I guess they went the path of aiming towards people who really liked the pathfinder adventures, as opposed to people looking for monthly pre-made adventures in general.

(Guess thats like a stock pick thing... do you go for the sure thing that might not net as high a gain, but is more stable... or do you go for the one thats got more risk, but possibly higher returns...)

 

[Rauol_Duke]

Yeah I guess they went the path of aiming towards people who really liked the pathfinder adventures, as opposed to people looking for monthly pre-made adventures in general.

GameMastery Modules are a monthly, 32-page stand-alone adventure. Very well done, IMO.

 

[Scribble]

Scrib, I don't pretend to understand the Magazine buisiness at all, but from what I gather, a new magazine wouldn't be able to have the same shelf space on newsstands that Dungeon and Dragon did (because they are highly recopgnizable names), not without spending loads of money to get that space. Therefore, they could not sell their add-space at a profitable level because the new magazine wouldn't be on as many newsstands / bookstores / etc. and therefore not been seen by as many peoples. Paizo has almost 30 employees (I think) and I'm sure they wanted to make the decision that kept all of those folks in thier jobs. What they are doing now is acting on that decision.

Could they have made another successful magazine? Maybe. Wolfgang Baur is making a heck of a shot at it, but he also doesn't have 30 employees to pay either (he uses Kobolds, which work for much cheaper).

Now we're getting closer to the understanding I seek... Thank you sensei of gonzoism...

I guess what I don't get is the shelf space thing... How would a lesser shelf space magazine be any worse then a lesser shelf space adventure book?

Is it easier to get shelf space for a book somehow?

And again before someone accuses me of it again... I'm not saying I don't believe what paizo said... I just want to understand what contributes to what they said.

 

[Rauol_Duke]

Now we're getting closer to the understanding I seek... Thank you sensei of gonzoism...

I guess what I don't get is the shelf space thing... How would a lesser shelf space magazine be any worse then a lesser shelf space adventure book?

Is it easier to get shelf space for a book somehow?

You're welcome.

It's a bit fuzzy to me as well, but I think here's where we start to get into profit margins. You can settle for the lesser amount of shelf space with a book because it sells for more. Whereas a magazine that sells for less has to rely on much more numerous sales to be profitable.