Why DMs Don't Like Magic Marts

[Raven Crowking]

retracted

 

[giant.robot]

I've always run "magic marts" as a guilded craftsmen. If you wanted arcane magic items you had to buy them from a mage's college (or representative) and it was made to order for you in a chapter house by some journeyman crafter. Even the reagents needed to build them would be hoarded or controlled by the mage guilds and they would sign contracts with other craftsmen guilds so you had to buy the sword you wanted enchanted from another union shop.

The traveling sales wizards were often illusionists and used silent image and minor image to give "live" demos to clients. You'd only be able to purchase from the mage guilds if you were a paying member or performed a service for them. I didn't draw the line at arcane items, clerical orders and temples had similar rules for the same sort of services.

I liked this because it allowed players to shop for things they wanted, allowed me as a DM to limit what they had access to, and required them to do some extra adventuring or role playing to get the items they wanted.

I think my favorite "magic mart" was a college of wizards specializing in Divination. They carried printed books with them titled "The Seer's Catalog" outlining their wares.

 

[Dungeonstone]

Any time I have placed a store in a campaign that buys/sells magic items on a regular basis it generally has the following:

~ It has the support/patronage of a powerful benefactor (the King, Assassin's Guild, etc.)

~ Any items of substantial combat value for the level of the campaign are either snatched up immediately by said patron or priced so prohibitively expensive as to force the character purchasing it into having to sell his services to the shop/patron in order to obtain it (essentially a plot hook for a new quest).

~ Magic items are only purchased by the shop if they feel that there is a "demand" on the market for the item. If not then they offer the PCs an insultingly low amount for the item (which generally keeps them from selling off something which may be needed in the campaign later on). Any item purchased by the shop may or may not be available for purchase by the PCs later on but if so will cost 4-10 times what the shop paid to them for it.

~ It has the security level of Fort Knox.

~The only items that are stocked regularly and that are priced within reason of the characters are ones I feel that they may need access to such as specific potions, scrolls or "utility" magic items that they may need in order to survive upcoming encounters.

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http://www.dungeonstone.com

 

[howandwhy99]

Well that would fit if you could go to Walmart and order a M-60 or an M1Abrams tank, not some hunting rifle or an orange hunting vest.

Jim-b'ob and I are Fighting-Men. Every other 7-day we travel to forest terrain to kill monsters and take their stuff. But we want equipment, stuff that will help us beat the monsters instead of being beaten. So first we travel to the town market for provisions and equipment.

Wall market, 'cause it's near the town wall.

There's a humanoid behind a table and a locked chest beside him. It's partially made out of glass, so we can see inside. We barter for a magical ranged weapon and some clothing. We are happy and count ourselves lucky, they take coin here.

We know this is the dungeon. He is a monster. He's not the only one here either. He's part of the faction of Wall-Marketeers - a sizable group who we remember from our travels as holding quite a lot of power. We know we might be able overpower this pipsqueak minion, but we are not walking out of town easily if we do. The Wall-Marketeers are in alliance with the town, another faction we and anyone else must swear allegiance to simply to be accepted in their territory without resistance. Not to mention we count property in this region, property protected by this same said alliance.

So we don't kill this monster for his stuff. We are too wise and intelligent for that.

 

[S'mon]

Retracted.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I did not get that impression.

You know what? Reading it again, neither do I.

I am in error.

Apologies & Retracted.

 

[Glade Riven]

In my last campaign, I was running the magical item shops (if the town was big enough) like a pawn shop. Lifted some of the scripting right from Pawn Stars. So you better have some paperwork on that magical item of yours. An expert may have to come in and verify that the object is authentic and appropriately apprase it. And if you walk into one of these shops with a dozen +1 swords to sell, you better have some answers for the town watch.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

No, the REAL reason DMs don't want Magic Mart is that they are non-union shops. You let one WAL-MAGIC in and the mom and pop magic stores go out of business, then the local economy starts to depend upon the WAL-MAGIC for everything, potions, weapons, armor, misc; it's a death spiral for the economic stability of a campaign village. Of course, the non-union employees, mean that crafting guilds are pushed out by unfair price fixing and volume buying, even though most of their items are made by kobolds in sweat shops just above the underdark.

Priceless. I'll have to drop this into the game sometime.

I'm less familiar with 4e in general, but it does seem to be a bit better. However, it does seem to be rife with all manner of ways to eke out just another +1 here or there...

Yeah, 4e is better in this regard but far from perfect. 4e has no diplomancers, but it has intimidators* who can force enemies to surrender.

*Insert Schwarzenegger voice.

 

[Thunderfoot]

If I ever ran Eberron, I would definitely use this!

I would also have goblinoids 'squatting' in the PCs' castle when they came back from an adventure, and thanks to the Squatter's Rights laws (the goblins have hired a Goblin Rights Lawyer) the PCs would have to engage in lengthy and expensive court action to evict them, only to find the castle completely trashed when they finally took possession. Laying a hand on any of the 'protected tenants' would result in severe legal penalties.

Gee, can't tell you live in London.
XD

 

[Lord Zardoz]

And like all point buy systems, Magic Marts increase the potential for both under- and over-powered PCs in your game. One player might decide to dump all of his points into offense [a magic weapon] while ignoring defense [AC items]. And because AC is 90% dependent on items, that PC becomes a glass cannon. Which in turn results in very short encounters, frequent resurrections, and probably massive annoyance.

You arrive at the same conclusion I do, but you seem to have taken a scenic route and used a dogsled being pulled by a team of chihuahuas. I will choose to elaborate on some specific points though.

- Magic shops lead to players over optimizing their characters. When a PC creates a character, they typically have a very specific idea in their head of what they want that character to do. If allowed to choose magic items, they will almost always choose the magic items that allow them to do that specific thing better.

- Most players will generally optimize towards durability (max HP / AC), or to damage output (increased bonuses to damage), or towards attack rolls (bonuses to attack rolls, lower crit threshold), and maybe once in a while towards taking extra actions. Almost no one optimizes towards support roles (extra healing) or non combat encounters (skill proficiency or skill bonuses).

For my game specifically, I have a pool of 5 players, but I will run if I can get 3 to show up. My group is all adult gamers, weekly game, better to keep the game active then wait for all to be available at the same time. A player that hyper optimizes his character tends to cause situations where I feel the need to account for that characters power set. But if I set up an encounter that way and that player cannot make it, the non optimized players who do show up get stomped to hell. Just think of the last time you set up an encounter with a bunch of powerful undead but the Cleric player could not make it.

I personally have a very strong aversion to planning a game around the presence of a specific player. I also prefer to have players equipped with magic items that open up more possible courses of action as opposed to allowing the players to hyper optimize towards always succeeding if they chose one particular course of action.

To that end, I am more likely to throw in something like a pair of Gloves that aid a skill check then I am to throw in a pair of gloves that do something for attack / damage.

END COMMUNICATION