Why do 3e/3.5e modules suck?

[Snoweel]

I think the likelihood of railroading is ultimately up to the whim of the DM and the malleability of the players.

I mean, sure there can be little comparative railroading in a site-based module (of which most 3.x modules are), but there doesn't *have* to be railroading in a story-based adventure.

The 'back to the dungeon' focus of 3.x, along with the ease of levelling to 20th is supposedly to make the PCs the heroes, in a way reducing the likelihood of NPCs being the movers and shakers in the campaign, and the site-based 3.x modules *do* give the impression that the PCs are the only ones who can make anything happen in the world, but on the same note, it seems that unlike the old 2e modules, nothing happens if the PCs don't do anything.

On the other hand, I played my last campaign starting with the 2e Slavers module modified to fit my 3e campaign (I actually bought the module after the release of 3e), and while the PCs took the early bait, they soon tired of fighting the new Slavelords and wanted to do other stuff.

No problem.

The module provided the backdrop for the rest of the campaign as other groups went after the Slavelords (and mostly failed) while the PCs did their own thing (inspired by elements in the module).

End result - no railroading, but the old 2e module was far more inspiring than anything I'd found for 3e and I didn't even need to come up with an interesting campaign background.

I mean, I can't run 3e modules as-is anyway, given how extensively house-ruled my homebrew is, so 2e modules aren't any more dificult to play anyhow.

But they are far more creatively stimulating by virtue of them being a "better read".

And sorry about the long sentences - I'm doped up on 'flu medication.

 

[Alzrius]

I think the reason is because 2E modules had a much larger "story-ish" background to work with.

Because 2E was interested in a holistic universe, where events from novels and other game products tended to all effect each other to some degree, this allowed for deeper, more intricate stories. Towards the end of 2E, there were even some modules that included text meant to be read as a story, not used for game play. Just look at The Great Modron March and its sequel Dead Gods. Some of the best stuff ever (thank you Monte!), and very much in the vein of a novel.

3E/3.5E has better mechanics than 2E, but the current paradigm of "everything stands apart from everything else" is crippling to making modules wit built-in stories (at leas, intricate stories). Whether for better or for worse, it's now saying that that is firmly within the milieu of the DM, not the game company. I, for one, miss the way 2E modules were written.

 

[Look_a_Unicorn]

I was at my mom/mum's house last night and I found my old 2e modules.

Now, while I love 3.5e and consider it an improvement over 2e in every way (which really hit home as I glanced at the old 2e stat blocks), I was struck by how interesting the old 2e modules were, in terms of plot and character, in comparison to the modules released for the newer edition.

Why is this? My guess is that products have a real crunch focus these days, at the expense of interesting stories, characters and other fluff.

Whaddaya reckon?

After thinking about the question for a few minutes- as I find the same thing, I think it is because these modules have been released as the new systems are being absorbed & learned, thus concentrating on the stat blocks would mean a DM may be unable (for whatever reason) to make a world/creatures/NPC's that he himself (yeah alright- or herself) did not create really come alive in the minds of the players.
And whenever the session is just dice-rolling... well that's not what I find makes D&D so enjoyable.
(wow, didn't use the words crunch of fluff onc... oh damn it)

 

[Treebore]

I like Necromancer, Troll Lords, and goodman games modules. I like a lot of the SL and Kalamar modules, I like most of the Penumbra modules, I like the few modules by Fiery Dragon.

IE I do not see what crappy or poorly done 3e modules you are talking about that are the majority of what is out there. Dungeon magazine, maybe?

In fact the early Troll Lords, Necromancer, and Fiery Dragon modules remind me a lot of the early Gygax modules, in both look and quality. Now they are putting out much more polished and even better product. Goodman Games intentionally goes for the look, and since they are a late comer to the module market they started at a more polished level.

There are alot of great 3e modules out there.

 

[RangerWickett]

Let us plan an adventure together, then? We'll have a great plot and story, and then we'll give it to professionals to finagle it into an easy-to-run module.

 

[RangerWickett]

I ended up liking this plot, so if anyone actually wants to make an adventure of it (*knocks on wood*), please ask first.

Basic Plot: A coastal city is threatened by a hurricane. Winds in the nearby seas have been unusually weak for the past few months, but suddenly a hurricane has appeared. Some other pressing business keeps the PCs in the city (maybe going after a 'not-too-important-to-the-rest-of-the-plot' bad guy) long enough to see that the hurricane just stops and sits about thirty miles offshore, for a week. The city is drenched, and most of the inhabitants have fled inland, but various things beckon the party to stay.

1) Why the heck is the hurricane just sitting there?

2) Local Thieves' Guild members have assaulted prominent nobles that have remained in the city. Using a dagger that steals voices, the thieves are blackmailing the nobles. Possibly a noble friend/employer of the PCs hires them to track down a gem that supposedly once sat in the pommel of the dagger. The voices are supposed to be in the gem. Research-oriented parties can figure out where the gem is hidden by looking through the mostly abandoned library in the city; combat-oriented groups can kick thieves' guild butt.

3) Of course, the thieves' guild wants the PCs to find the gem, because it's hidden in a place with a Forbiddance effect against evil people, a prison that unfortunately flooded in the rains of the hurricane. The party has to go there and deal with the uneasy dead left from all the drowned prisoners. The gem was actually swallowed by a former thief/assassin, and he's still alive, able to breathe because the gem provides him air. He's managed to get free of his cel since the guards left, and has set some nifty aquatic traps.

4) The thieves' guild has been hired by the main villains. They need this gem, since they believe it holds the spirit of a long-dead air mage.

5) In the eye of the hurricane, a dessicated, rusted iron-plated warship floats as the villains' base. Sea and air monsters defend it, meaning the best way to get in is to hitch a ride on the thieves' guild ship when it goes to deliver the booty. They needed to conjure the hurricane to provide enough power to release the ancient air mage.

So, we've got a mostly abandoned sea-side city with lots of canals and eerie empty buildings. Cool. We've got a flooded prison to which evil people cannot willingly go. Cool. And we've got a giant storm just looming ominously in the distance. Cool.

 

[Minicol]

I think there have been very good modules done for 3.x. I am especially a fan of the Penumbra line. The worse ones are in my opinion the few ones from wizards (not including DUNGEON). I mean any fool is able to throw a few monsters in a few random rooms and pretend there is a story. Worse example of this : Heart of Nightfang Spear. You see an ugly tower : go there and kill everything. Most 1st ed modules had more background and storytelling than that.

Writing a story is another thing. My group of players tend to be bored after even one dungeoning session. They WANT Fluff. If they cannot roleplay they are unhappy. Some of them regularly threaten to quit the game if there is not more background, more interaction, and less dungeons.

3.x is focusing on rules because every game geek wants the full rule collection for fear of missing out something cool rather than adventures that take longer to develop. Look at how many prestige classes there are and how much of them have anything more than a cigarette paper' worth of background, as opposed to standard cut and paste powers.

3.x is also having a problem with storytelling due to the excessive number of high level monsters. It is a wonder that the planet has not already been eaten given the high number there is. How can you seriously develop a world around adventures with serious plots if any of the monsters could readily eat the next town without even noticing it ?

Anyway, all of this is largely a matter of taste, but I guess you see that I am clearly on the "fluff" side.

 

[Look_a_Unicorn]

I ended up liking this plot, so if anyone actually wants to make an adventure of it (*knocks on wood*), please ask first.

Basic Plot: A coastal city is threatened by a hurricane.

...

So, we've got a mostly abandoned sea-side city with lots of canals and eerie empty buildings. Cool. We've got a flooded prison to which evil people cannot willingly go. Cool. And we've got a giant storm just looming ominously in the distance. Cool.

You know, I think if the existing modules opened with such an intruiging mini-plotseries I'd be more inclined to try DMing them again

 

[reiella]

The 'back to the dungeon' focus of 3.x, along with the ease of levelling to 20th is supposedly to make the PCs the heroes, in a way reducing the likelihood of NPCs being the movers and shakers in the campaign, and the site-based 3.x modules *do* give the impression that the PCs are the only ones who can make anything happen in the world, but on the same note, it seems that unlike the old 2e modules, nothing happens if the PCs don't do anything.

This I shall contend as I'm staring at a 3.0 module (City of the Spider Queen), that is site-based, and has a timeline evident that results in Very Bad Stuff Happening if the party doesn't do anything.

With it said, most of the Flappy Modules don't seem to really have a net effect "on failure". And I believe that is more so an instance of "genericizing" the game world for the common gamer. MegaModules can imbed some results fairly easily on their own, and extrapolate the ramifications because they are often in essence "a mini-campaign", and at least the example I gave was explicitly designed to drop in FR.

 

[cleaverthepit]

Ranger Wickett, PLease contact troll lord games