Why do a homebrew?

[Nightfall]

This is exactly why I enjoy using some aspects of d20. Or at least having players that are willing to try out characters that make sense in a setting. In any case I do think if you have a character that wants to use say a Holy Warrior and your setting can support it, I'd say do so.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I do it to have something that is mine-- a world that functions the way I want it to, following pseudo-logic that I can accept and enjoy, and making it far, far easier for PC actions to affect the world they're playing in. (In my experience, this is very difficult in most published settings, and almost impossible in the most popular ones.)

I also do it to create some sanity-- the number of intelligent humanoid races on most campaign worlds drives me insane, so I tend to limit it on my homebrews.

My current homebrew project isn't as connected with these concerns, though, as it's a more-or-less standard superhero universe (with heavy Marvel influence) that also uses a lot of D&Disms. (Vancian magic, warrior-priests, mind flayers, and magic missiles, to name a few.) I'm not altogether concerned with the number of intelligent humanoid species on one planet, since I have more than one planet to work with, and d20 Modern already tends to work on assumptions I can deal with, since it's not designed as fantasy and magic is generally portrayed as either non-existent or just returning to power. (My world is more-or-less Earth-based, but I'm using an imaginary city.)

 

[Tauric]

Thanks guys for your input. The question for me was really mever why to homebrew, but rather how, at least as far as getting players to accept my rules.

So, the advice I'm getting is to keep handouts short and infrequent, introduce changes and new bits gradually, and let player have a hand in fleshing things out.

I'll use this advice next time I run a game, and see if I'm any more successfull.

Thanks again.

 

[Nightfall]

Also if they still don't listen or pay attention, thump them over the head with Book of the Righteous. That will get their attention.

 

[BSF]

Thanks guys for your input. The question for me was really mever why to homebrew, but rather how, at least as far as getting players to accept my rules.

My apologies! That is what you asked. I got too hung up on the thread title.

OK, a little more practical advice is in order.

Have some handouts, but don't be too overbearing with them. Ultimately, they end up being more valuable for you to understand your homebrew. Hold on to the handouts for when a player asks a question that you already have a handout for.

Make liberal use of Knowledge skills and Bardic Knowledge. Never be afraid to use these and provide a wealth of information for a good roll. All too often, the knowledge rolls are feared for what they might reveal on the DM's Big Secret. Instead, you should be looking at it as a wonderful excuse to breathe life into your world.

Examples:
- Your party comes across an unknown holy glyph/symbol/sigil. Have everyone with the skill make a Knowledge (Religion). If that fails, and there is a Bard around, have a second go with Bardic Knowledge. If everyone has a good roll, combine little snippets of information here and ther so you provide a lot of information.

- Your party comes across an old library. The character with Knowledge (History) recognizes some notes from an obscure historical figure. You take the time to relate a quick story on why this figure was interesting, even if he played a minor role in history. You have just created a book that can be resold (treasure), you have given the group a little more information, and you have left it open for the characters to read the book (Thus, they are asking you for a handout of some sort).

Just two examples for now. The point is to look for opportunities for the players to use the characters' knowledge skills so you can show off your homebrew world.

Work with each player during character creation. Resist the urge to say no and see if you can find a way to integrate what they are asking for into your game. This does not mean absolutely allowing whatever they want. I will reference Psion's post in which he had to dissuade players from choosing Kagonesti or Grugach. This is good, he has a specific campaign world that does not include the baggage from another game setting. I would ask (and I don't doubt that Psion and a good many other people would ask) the player why they were interested in that concept and then find a replacement in my world. I would also enlist the player in fleshing the culture/race/region/whatever out. I provide guidelines, they provide detail. I elaborate on that as needed during the game.

If the player has something they really want, they will probably be excited about helping with it. As well, they will be excited about playing the character.

Does that help answer your real question a little better?

 

[Luddite]

After you suppress the urge to kill them and take their stuff, ask your players to follow a simple rule that has served me well: "Please, build a character to fit the setting rather than bending the setting to fit your character."

If they can't accept that simple (and reasonable) request, then by all means, make with the killing and the taking of their stuff.

Sort of to the side. I find that players either will make a character to fit the setting or not. Reguardless if it is homebrew or not.

I have know player that only plays Forgotten Realms. Even if in some other world, he will always use FR campaign information for his own character.

-The Luddite

 

[barsoomcore]

I remember when the Greyhawk campaign setting first came out and I heard about it and scratched my head and wondered who in the heck would ever buy it?

The first twenty years I spent playing D&D, both I and everybody I knew ran homebrew campaigns. There WERE no published settings. Then Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance and Dark Sun...

And I'm still kind of scratching my head.

Isn't the WHOLE POINT of DMing creating the ENTIRE WORLD out of your head?

Well, it kind of is for me. Sometimes I think I run games only in order to justify my obsessive world-building.

As for HOW -- when I started Barsoom, I knew I'd be providing a LOT of background material, but I also knew big handouts would never get read -- so I created the Barsoom website and put everything up there -- the maps, the country descriptions -- the basics a person who lived on the planet would know.

First of all, that gave me an infinite canvas to paint on -- I could provide as much detail as I wanted without having give out reams of paper. I could add illustrations that evoked the spirit of what I wanted.

Secondly, it let me structure the material in a way to suck in readers -- the Barsoom website deliberately doesn't have much in the way of useful navigation. You have to go into the pages and read the text and find the little links to other pages -- there are pages buried way down underneath tons of detail that only somebody very determined is ever going to find. This accomplished three things:

1. It kept the amount of information at the "top" level small, so as not to intimidate players not yet committed to working hard on the campaign

2. It rewarded players who read carefully and spent some time going through the material.

3. It allowed me to expand the site limitlessly as the campaign progressed and player knowledge increased. Without a structured navigation system to keep consistent, I could add pages without worrying about updating the whole site.

When I started creating the Barsoom website, I literally knew NOTHING about HTML, Internet technology, design, browsers, servers, any of that stuff. I poked around and taught myself how to do it, made a LOT of mistakes and kept it simple until I'd learned how to do more complex stuff. Now it's got PERL scripts loading in journal entries, CSS styling throughout, and in my not-so humble opinion, totally ROCKS.

And it makes my campaign so much richer.

Thirdly, it gave me an answer to all PC questions and complaints. If somebody said, "But what races are there," I said, "Look at the website."

"Why can't I play a druid?"

"Look at the website."

Players had to go to the site to get their questions answered, and they ended up poking around and learning stuff even if they didn't intend to.

You've probably got a friend somewhere who could offer you webhosting -- or there's any number of free or inexpensive options around the Web. Browse around and find some HTML resources, throw together five or six pages describing your campaign and put them up. Tell your players to read them. Make it important for them to read your site -- update it frequently (I used to post "Barsoom Rumours" in the early days so players who checked the site could get a little extra info) and make sure players get rewarded for knowing stuff.

Remember that a big part of a DM's job is balancing what a player WANTS with what the story NEEDS. Letting players be what they want can make for a dull campaign in a big hurry.

 

[Desdichado]

Make liberal use of Knowledge skills and Bardic Knowledge. Never be afraid to use these and provide a wealth of information for a good roll. All too often, the knowledge rolls are feared for what they might reveal on the DM's Big Secret. Instead, you should be looking at it as a wonderful excuse to breathe life into your world.

Wow! Great advice, that never occured to me before. I've always considered those Knowledge skills to essentially be throwaways.

Once again, a great idea thanks to ENWorld. [snatch]

Work with each player during character creation. Resist the urge to say no and see if you can find a way to integrate what they are asking for into your game. This does not mean absolutely allowing whatever they want. I will reference Psion's post in which he had to dissuade players from choosing Kagonesti or Grugach. This is good, he has a specific campaign world that does not include the baggage from another game setting. I would ask (and I don't doubt that Psion and a good many other people would ask) the player why they were interested in that concept and then find a replacement in my world. I would also enlist the player in fleshing the culture/race/region/whatever out. I provide guidelines, they provide detail. I elaborate on that as needed during the game.

If the player has something they really want, they will probably be excited about helping with it. As well, they will be excited about playing the character.

Also a great idea. Good post!

 

[Desdichado]

I remember when the Greyhawk campaign setting first came out and I heard about it and scratched my head and wondered who in the heck would ever buy it?

The first twenty years I spent playing D&D, both I and everybody I knew ran homebrew campaigns. There WERE no published settings. Then Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance and Dark Sun...

And I'm still kind of scratching my head.

Isn't the WHOLE POINT of DMing creating the ENTIRE WORLD out of your head?

Well, it kind of is for me. Sometimes I think I run games only in order to justify my obsessive world-building.

I totally agree with almost every word you say, with the exception that I like buying and reading canned campaign settings, I simply don't like to use them. They're great material to liberally steal from, though.

 

[kigmatzomat]

As I was posting my question about making magic distinctive, I asked myself "Self, why even bother? The players either won't care, or complain."

The players probably won't care; a setting is a setting until you actually play it or it has some massive differences (i.e. shadowrun was a shock when it intro'd; magic *and* cyber?!?)

The trick is to get them into the game first. Big worlds are nice but what does it matter to the guys on the ground?

I tried to make a world where the different races had certain outlooks on life and certain customs (including naming conventions), and only one of my five characters bothered to follow the customs of his race.

Ahhh, you went very high-intensity. Until you can hand them a bound supplement and say "this is the game we're playing," you'd do best by having a few "standard" regions within the setting. Base your PCs out of that and nudge them into the more colorful settings. Look at Kalamar, it has one "generic" realm within it and then you can go to more exotic locales from there.

I created my own cosmology and pantheon, but most of the characters were athiest/agnostic and the player of the cleric didn't like any of my gods. I had to modify one to fit (which really wasn't that bad).

First of, there are no atheists in D&D. Oh, they may not think the gods are the all-powerful beings they claim to be, but they deep-down know that those beings exist. Agnostics are common, though I generally refer to them as pantheonic worshippers. They pay lip service to the whole pantheon but no particular allegiance.

As far as modifying the gods, well, if you liked the feedback good. First drafts don't always work.

Before begining the campaign I gave my players guides I had written, explaining the world, and if they had other questions I answered them, but it still didn't work. After a few sessions, I just defaulted back to the PHB, as far as gods and racial archetypes.

Sounds like you wanted something else from the players and didn't stick with it long enough for them to really settle into it.

When I run a homebrew, I plan on the first half dozen sessions to be nothing but character building. Establish the party and solidify the characters ties to the immediate location. Have a couple of "exotics" around on a regular basis to reinforce the fact that this is a particular setting. Make it someone they can first relate to and then demonstrate the more unusual qualities. (Ogres eat soap in my world like candy; it's a minor detail but it weirds the players out. It also didn't show up )

After that you start expanding the world, drawing them into it. Have them hire onto a caravan and travel someplace not too far away and let them feel the differences. Have someone they meet and like turn out to be a slave trader or other normally offensive occupation that is perfectly legal in this other realm.