Why do all the characters die in British TV?

[Elf Witch]

Here's the point: some people like some things, some people like other things. Saying "I and people I've talked to don't like this thing" isn't a case for not having that thing, yet that's her argument.

Elf Witch, you don't like it. Check. Can you acknowledge that there are in fact people who do like it? And that there might even be enough of those people to make it a worthy pursuit, like they regularly do on British TV? Or is it simply not something that's reasonably likable and is therefore automatically bad?

That was not my argument at all. I was responding to someone quote that the reasons the books are so popular is the high death count.

And I said that the high death count and graphic sex is the main reason most of the people I have talked to at cons and on the internet have said that they don't like them.

There was never any debate on my part about the popularity of the books or that a lot of people like them. Or even if they should exist.

I sat in a panel at Necronomcon a few years ago on the books. It was an open debate on why do so many people like them and why do so many not like them. The majority of people who don't like them hate all the violence and the graphic sex. The rest of the reasons went along the lines of badly written, I feel like I am reading someone game world, I dislike the way every chapter is about a different character.

I have read all the books I own the role playing game and board game I am hoping to get the series on blu ray when it comes out so I don't think you can say I don't like the series.

I am also a huge British TV fan for other then DR Who though I love that too. I used to own a pal VCR and TV so I could trade tapes of American shows for British shows back in the old days.

I do not know where you are getting the whole I don't like something then it shouldn't exist except from your own head.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You got your currency sign wrong.

€€€?
£££?
¥¥¥?

It's all money.








($ rule!)

 

[Kzach]

Can't stand the werewolf. Admittedly, accent bigotry. I don't like his sister in Misfits, either.

Huh, didn't know they were bro and sis but now that you mention it, gods, they look like twins. Maybe their mother and father were also brother and sister? They've also got that same dopey look on their faces when interacting with other characters. With her, though, it's 'cause her character is dopey (maybe she is too?), but with him it's part of what makes his character interesting because you know he's actually quite perceptive and calculating.

Anyway, I think he's quite good and that the interplay between him and the vampire is great. A real loathe/respect relationship that I can see delivering some good drama and laughs as the series progresses. Better than that "if only you were a woman!" relationship Mitchell and George had.

 

[Fast Learner]

I was picking up on a perceived tone, you're right you didn't say nobody likes them. I'll try this a different way.

You said:

As for Game of Thrones this is based on a book and they wanted to stay as close as possible to it.

It seems to me that you're saying that the reason they stayed with character deaths is because that's what's in the books, as though they didn't have a choice. I'm suggesting that the fact that characters die is one of the appeals of the series, along with the sex and the violence.

In other words, they don't have character death, sex, and violence in the TV show due to a need to stay true to the books; they are making a show from the books at least in part because of those things. There are a thousand other series they could have made a show from that don't have those things.

 

[Elf Witch]

I was picking up on a perceived tone, you're right you didn't say nobody likes them. I'll try this a different way.

You said:

It seems to me that you're saying that the reason they stayed with character deaths is because that's what's in the books, as though they didn't have a choice. I'm suggesting that the fact that characters die is one of the appeals of the series, along with the sex and the violence.

In other words, they don't have character death, sex, and violence in the TV show due to a need to stay true to the books; they are making a show from the books at least in part because of those things. There are a thousand other series they could have made a show from that don't have those things.

See that is what I felt the other poster was saying that the reason so many people like it is because of the death rate and that was why it was so successful on HBO. That violence and graphic sex is the main appeal.


There is this big assumption that people who like the books like it because no character is safe. I can't speak for anyone else but that is my least favorite aspect of the books and sometimes I feel GRRM just does it to be shocking and some of it is gratuitous. I like the world he built. I like some of the characters. I like his mythology.

And no I was not saying that the only reason they stayed with it was because it was in the book. I pointed out that True Blood does things that are not in the books though I think i made have said Blood Ties another TV show based on books.

The point I was trying to make was that just because HBO chose to follow the books and use the graphic violence and sex not all shows need to be as gritty and realistic to be good, award winning or successful.

My real life is hard. I have both major health and financial issues. In my life I have dealt with some pretty dark things. I have seen violence up close and personal. I have knelt in blood desperately doing CPR for a friend who was shot in the head.

I watched the man who kidnapped and terrorized my son get a slap on the wrist because his parents had money.

I just went through two years of hell worrying that my son was going to lose his battle with cancer.

So I really don't want violence and grim and gritty in my entertainment. Which is why I prefer as I said knowing that for the most part the characters are going to be okay and that bad guys will get what is coming to them. I don't always want realism I want to escape from reality.

I watched 24, BSG, Spooks and I have read GRRM stuff and some other gritty novels. But I have to be in the mood for them.

Right now things are stressful in my life so I find myself reading more light books like cozy mysteries. I know there are murders but they are not gruesome nor the entire point of the novel and the murderer always gets caught. Or romance novels, light Fantasy and Trek and Stargate novels.

I am mainly watching things like the Big Bang Theory, White Collar, Castle , Merlin and in movies I have been watching a lot of the old Cary Grant comedies, Doris Day and Rock Hudson movies and a ton of B horror and SF movies from the 50s.

And to be crystal clear on this point I am not implying that only people who have never had violence in their lives or don't have stress want gritty realistic shows.

Everybody handles stress and bad things differently.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

I have somewhat dark past. I was always most sane person of my company. And I have seen many bad things, and luckily I wasn't there anymore when most bad things happened. I understand people well, but I have low empathy. Luckily maybe. Even for myself, which is good thing. I have permanent health issues, not because of my life choices, bad genes probably, my mother died very young too.

I like fantasy, because real life sucks. Well, it's kinda funny too. And boring, mostly. And major problem for me is that my disease causes me to be very tired most of the time, and that I don't do so much things I used to, but I have constant action craving nature. Roleplaying games and writing stories have always helped me to focus my energies in positive ways. Also , since I quit so early being a kid, I am thrilled about kiddie things, like theme parks, balloons and candys. Also, nowdays I prefer something new and refreshing what comes to entertaiment.

I used to watch lot of moves and tv shows back to 80-90, also read lot of books and comics. I didn't sleep that much then and I had to fill those long nights with something.
I really liked those things then. And IMO they were bit better. Outer Limits tv-series had lot of same actors, but stories were very interesting and though provoking. Everything coming from tv nowdays seem to be sort of story-lite. Better cgi, yeh, but it seems like boring waste of time. I rather go out and start some conversations with random people.

I like HBO series. They go sometimes bit too far with teases of graphic sex and violence, but for me it's important those elements exist. They make people more believable and thus I care for even characters I dislike more.
Charactes from most shows are too pure and kinda immature/old people personalities. I don't put that quite right, but sense of "bit off" is strong. Plus I find people's behavior in shows like star trek new iterations boring and irritating.

Of modern television I follow Doctor Who and it's spinoffs, yes even the kiddieshow, some of enemies are interesting.

I liked the Event, but I am not too sad it ended.
I like Game of Thrones. I don't like book, so storywise it's kinda "plah" but I enjoy characters and visulalization.
I like Real Time with Bill Maher, I think it's intriguing and kinda funny
I watch various BBC documents, the Universe too, though it was not that great
Thanks to my sis I started to watch the Revenge, I like it
I liked Spartacus, first season
True Blood, though some of episodes are kinda "doh"
I liked Luther, and songs at end of episode were really cool

I watch music shows, even Idol stuff.

Of bit futher in the bast I liked Lost Room, and was quite happy it stayed miniseries, I am positive they would have ruined the good thing.

I rather liked Lost when it began but it lost it's charm before 1st season when I realized it was one of those plot-shows where writers don't have a clue about truth either. You don't write good mysteries that way.

I am not really fan of gritty Historical shows. They have too much predictabilty. Historical stories were popular a while back, now it's time for more comics and fairy tales again. Which means I'm going to be going to movies lot as my sister's company. Only fairy tale story that really impressed me was miniseries called 10th Kingdom.

Sex and violance alone doesn't alone make good show for me. I want some original story. But I prefer ones with sex and violance, because, well, it's very human. I like reading really weird comics (well more usual too), but I don't like too much werid in movies/tv-series. HBO:s Carnival (mmh was that the name) was bit too weird for me. Shows lIke that or shows bit pointless dream like scenarios. Mysteries should have answers or titulate people's imagination to guess what truth could be like. If it just confuses, it's no good.

I don't like writers who keep killing characters just to shock. Killing should be either plot-reasonable or look like sorry accident (random casuality). There was one fantasy writer who liked to murder all his characters. Some really liked the books. I didn't. There was that, and then people drinking orange juice and other too modern sounding things.
These are off-putters, unless it's purposefully camp like Xena the warrior princess and their likes.

All in all, considering how my tastes for fiction have changed during the years, I don't wonder why tv offering have also changed. And movies. And keep on changing.

 

[Plane Sailing]

The people saying that the fact that British TV is more deadly has to do with how they do series and how they actors are not locked into long term contracts is absolutely correct.

I think you ought to consider that it might be more to do with the way that the writers and producers want to run their stories.

Otherwise this would be true of every series, and it manifestly isn't!

Thus it is a story issue rather than a contract issue.

Cheers

 

[jonesy]

They already killed at least one person on Game of Thrones who still lives in the books, and seemingly saved one who dies (because he can no longer fill the role he has later in the books).

 

[Elf Witch]

I think you ought to consider that it might be more to do with the way that the writers and producers want to run their stories.

Otherwise this would be true of every series, and it manifestly isn't!

Thus it is a story issue rather than a contract issue.

Cheers

Sometimes I am sure it is story ,but not others. Take Primeval they killed Nick Cutter's character because the actor wanted off the show, They wrote out Jenny for the same reason and the one female whose name I can't remember who they killed off screen wanted out because they changed location were they filmed and she didn't want to be away from her daughter. Also the actor who played Steven told the producers he would not resign for series 3 hence his great sacrifice at the end of season 2.

So that is four major cast members who were either killed or written off because the actors wanted out and their contracts were up.

I just read an interview with the creator of Being Human and the reason they killed the three main characters was because the actors wanted off the show to do other things. They would have loved to keep going with them if they had been available.

So it is a bit of both. But I do remembering reading about the issue they have with British series not knowing when they were going to get renewed and that sometimes when they did some of the actors were not available.

 

[billd91]

So it is a bit of both. But I do remembering reading about the issue they have with British series not knowing when they were going to get renewed and that sometimes when they did some of the actors were not available.

Sure, it's a different environment compared to US television. In the US, we're much more concerned with filling out a semi-stable programming schedule, though we do make allowances for mid-season replacements for shows that get canceled before a full season is done. Mini-series focused around telling a particular story come up, but they're comparatively rare on the big networks.

In the UK, you get some shows that fill programming slots like East Enders or Coronation Street. Those are more open-ended shows with no particular end in mind like most American series. And then you get a significant number of short run series focused on a particular story or that run for as many episodes as the writers intent to write before they move on to other projects. And I think that culture of the short-run series informs other parts of the programming environment so that you have actors like Christopher Eccleston who was a brilliant Doctor Who but declined to do any more than one series of an otherwise open-ended show. They have plenty of other options that won't tie them down, there's less pressure to continue on in the same successful show and role, in part, because there is a culture of the short-run "tell the story and be done" show.

I also wouldn't be surprised if having a history significant state-funded television has helped develop this culture by establishing alternate ways for shows to be profitable (or at least not unprofitable and worth doing) other than just finding sponsors willing to hitch their product's wagon to particular shows and advertising time slots.