Why do clerics prepare spells?

[Sarellion]

IIRC the cleric doesn´t necessarily gets what he wants but what the deity deems appropriate.

 

[Andor]

I think of it like this:

The deity does not spend all his time watching Bob the Cleric to see if he needs help just now. He has hundreds or thousands of clerics across multiple worlds, as well as his own concerns. Instead there is a designated time of day where he and his agencies accept request for power from all those clerics. The prayers are recieved and prepackaged spells are granted to the clerics, as they asked for them. The gods trust their clerics to know what they need, they are the man on the spot after all.

Can a god answer a spontaneous prayer? Of course they can, they can grant the barbarians prayer if they feel like it. Can they grant whatever spells they think the cleric needs instead of the one they ask for? Duh. But in both cases it's implying that the gods (Who are neither ominscient or omnipotent) are actively paying attention to that one cleric...

 

[Herremann the Wise]

The way I'd prefer to do Divine magic is, unfortunately, a lot of work for the DM, and not very predictable for the player.

The Cleric calls down the power of his god... and gets whatever effect the god deems appropriate, using the relevant spell slot.

Sometimes, the spell is the obvious choice. Horde of bugbears? Flame Strike, for example. Sometimes it isn't. "Well, we've tried everything else to open this door," the cleric says. "Maybe Olidammara can help..." But when he calls on the deity for assistance, instead of a spell to open the door, he receives a Find The Path, leading the long way around to reach the other side of the door, and burning a 6th level slot in the process. (Olidammara prefers subtlety to blasting everything in sight, after all.)

When another cleric attempts to cast a spell on the blinded and wounded captain of the guard, he receives a Cure Serious Wounds, but not a Remove Blindness... and then the cleric is left to try and figure out why his goddess doesn't feel this man's eyesight should be restored...

-Hyp.

I actually really like this approach - something about it makes sense. Is it the fact that you have to have faith that your God will give you what you think you need? Or is it more that you as the cleric are a servant of your deity and through you does he or she act? It really defines a close connection between the Cleric and the Deity.

The approach could also encourage interesting roleplaying opportunities. You could call upon your deity to "heal this worthy warrior" or "aid our party against evil" to provide a cure serious wounds and a Mass Bull's Strength respectively. Sometimes of course, the deity may choose not to heed the "direction" of the servant and do something else entirely or even nothing at all!

While it does put an onus on the DM to know the cleric lists back to front, their limited size makes the idea workable.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Amal Shukup]

The Cleric calls down the power of his god... and gets whatever effect the god deems appropriate, using the relevant spell slot..

I don't - generally - want to take the player's thunder by solving things for them. However, I think this would be an EXCELLENT option for the Miracle Spell (and maybe a Lesser Miracle Spell equiv to Limited Wish) In each case, the Deity would deliver the Spell Effect (within the limits of the spell granted) that best serves the player (and/or the interests of the God). Basically, a 'Hail Mary' Pass...

I currently let Clerics swap Spells on the fly for any Spell on their Domain list of equal/lesser value - if you want to swap to Healing, you need the Healing Domain. I also let Clerics memorize Domain Spells in their normal slots if desired (Deity's favourite spells - limiting them to only once each seemed silly).

However, what I really want to do is:

Break Cleric Spells into sub lists - Universal, Good, Neutral 'X' axis, Evil, Lawful, Neutral 'Y' Axis, Chaotic and the Domain Lists (or ditch 'domains' altogether and simply create Deity Specific lists). Then PCs would only get access to the lists they qualify for. Lists would all be of fixed length: Clerics may research and learn new Spells, but they take a 'slot' on the appropriate list and another (same level) must be discarded.

Then Clerics can Prepare Spells (do the rituals during prep time) in which case the Spell is available to be cast/completed as a Standard Action (or longer as the Spell describes).

Any expendable components (M, XP) are expended when the ritual is done (ie during Prep time). Spells can be kept 'prepared' indefinitely, but if the Spell is overwritten in a subsequent prep, then the materials/XP is lost. Other components (V,S, DF) are required both during the prep ritual AND when the Prepared Spell is cast.

OR

Blank 'slots' can be prepared but left empty to allow Spells to be cast Spontaneously. However, the casting time is 1 'Action' (or longer as the Spell describes) + 1 'Action' per Spell Level to cast . Basically the Cleric does the ritual right then and there (maintaining Concentration checks as required of course).

This would allow a Cleric with a prepped but empty 3rd level Slot to cast Prayer spontaneously - taking 4 consecutive Standard Actions to complete the associated ritual.

Metamagic can be applied either during Prep OR spontaneously (except Quicken, obviously), but it takes a higher available slot and, of course, additional consecutive Actions to cast. A spontaneously cast Maximized Inflict Moderate Wounds (Mass) would take a prepped but empty ninth level slot PLUS 10 consecutive Standard Actions to cast...

MAYBE do something whereby a Higher level Blank Slot lets you cast lower level Spells a bit faster - say subtract the difference (5th level slot lets you cast a 3rd Level Spell as a Standard Action). Perhaps make that a Divine MetaMagic feat?

So, Clerics would have fewer (but still lots of) Spells, but the option to cast on the fly at a significant penalty...

A'Mal

 

[Hypersmurf]

I don't - generally - want to take the player's thunder by solving things for them. However, I think this would be an EXCELLENT option for the Miracle Spell (and maybe a Lesser Miracle Spell equiv to Limited Wish) In each case, the Deity would deliver the Spell Effect (within the limits of the spell granted) that best serves the player (and/or the interests of the God). Basically, a 'Hail Mary' Pass...

"You don’t so much cast a miracle as request one. You state what you would like to have happen and request that your deity (or the power you pray to for spells) intercede."

It's pretty much how Miracle's already written

-Hyp.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

The way I'd prefer to do Divine magic is, unfortunately, a lot of work for the DM, and not very predictable for the player.

The Cleric calls down the power of his god... and gets whatever effect the god deems appropriate, using the relevant spell slot.

[...]

When another cleric attempts to cast a spell on the blinded and wounded captain of the guard, he receives a Cure Serious Wounds, but not a Remove Blindness... and then the cleric is left to try and figure out why his goddess doesn't feel this man's eyesight should be restored...

I like that a lot. I wish I'd read this a couple of months ago, before I started my new campaign.

It obviously requires a huge amount of DM discretion, which is -- and the authors of 3E would verify this -- antithetical to the design philosophy of the game. But with a fair and competent DM, and with mature players, I think this is a variant that could add a great deal to the fun of playing a divine spellcaster.

 

[I'm A Banana]

When Moses faced the Pharoah's magicians, he used the equivalent of the old Sticks to Snakes spell. He didn't pray to Yahweh that morning to grant him that ability on the off chance that it came up. He just listened to the voice of God and cast the spell.

I think in this example it'd be more appropriate to say that God "personally" did the miracles, rather than working through Moses to do them. Moeses didn't turn sticks into snakes, God did, because God was right there with him, albeit unseen.

Part of my problem is that I have a hard time ignoring the necessary metagame thinking that comes along with choosing your spells.

Its not "pray and fast until Zeus sends rain." It is in fact, ask Zeus in the morning to give you X number of spells from a laundry list of effects available to all clerics of all faiths. Later on, using your own power, you can go ahead and make it rain.

I think it is "pray and fast until Zeus sends rain," only you have the ability to say "okay, Zeus, I'm gonna need some rain to day" and he's like "okay, here's the power to make rain today, I'll allow you the judgement to determine when it is right to make it rain."

Zeus sends the rain through the cleric. You pray and fast and Zeus tells you finally, okay, you tell me when to make it rain, and I'll do it.

In the case of keeping the slots open, that preparation in the morning says "Zeus, I'm not sure what i'm going to need you to do for me quite yet, but I'm fasting and praying now so that when I know, you'll be there for me." and Zeus is like "Cool, yeah, I'll be there for you, but you better show me what you want with the proper ritual before I actually give it to you."

The approach could also encourage interesting roleplaying opportunities. You could call upon your deity to "heal this worthy warrior" or "aid our party against evil" to provide a cure serious wounds and a Mass Bull's Strength respectively. Sometimes of course, the deity may choose not to heed the "direction" of the servant and do something else entirely or even nothing at all!

A deity always has the option to withhold some spells or grant different ones. So if Olidamara knew they were going to be facing a door like that and wanted to keep the cleric on his toes, he might give him Find the Path automatically at 6th level, using up one of his slots, whether he likes it or not. Ditto for the remove blindness -- you simply don't get it when you call upon it.

Admittely, the RAW don't encourage such things, but the option exists. In Concordance, such refusals are part of the overall metaplot of the campaign setting, after all. (God Himself has answered one question: Do you exist? Answered with a resounding "yes." And now it's up to the mortals to figure out the Divine Nature).

 

[reanjr]

Priest goes to church and begins morning prayer.

"Please [god_name], grant me the strength to heal those in need [cure light wounds], to vanquish my foes [divine favor], to root out the unnatural things that are your enemy [detect undead]. When my enemies come to assault me, let their blows go astray [doom]. When my allies strike in return, let their blows strike true [bless]."

Then he goes out for the day.

 

[dungeon blaster]

The way I do cleric spells in my campaign is through a Faith check. This is a d20 roll based on cleric level with many modifiers dependent on how faithful the cleric has been. The result of the roll determines how the god acts on the cleric's behalf. Fail the check and the god will be angry and possibly punish the cleric. Pass the check and the god will grant a spell of his choice. A higher level spell requires a higher roll.

 

[JoeBlank]

The way I'd prefer to do Divine magic is, unfortunately, a lot of work for the DM, and not very predictable for the player.

The Cleric calls down the power of his god... and gets whatever effect the god deems appropriate, using the relevant spell slot.

Sometimes, the spell is the obvious choice. Horde of bugbears? Flame Strike, for example. Sometimes it isn't. "Well, we've tried everything else to open this door," the cleric says. "Maybe Olidammara can help..." But when he calls on the deity for assistance, instead of a spell to open the door, he receives a Find The Path, leading the long way around to reach the other side of the door, and burning a 6th level slot in the process. (Olidammara prefers subtlety to blasting everything in sight, after all.)

When another cleric attempts to cast a spell on the blinded and wounded captain of the guard, he receives a Cure Serious Wounds, but not a Remove Blindness... and then the cleric is left to try and figure out why his goddess doesn't feel this man's eyesight should be restored...

-Hyp.

As you and others have mentioned, this is a very cool idea but it requires a lot of work from the DM and steals some thunder from the player.

I've been looking for a way to get motivated about playing my cleric again (we rotate DMs in one game, and my PC cleric has been on and off-camera side quest while I took my turn in the DM's chair).

Maybe a version of your idea might be in order. I'm going to look at the idea of randomly rolling at least on spell per spell level each day, and considering this the spell that the cleric's deity choose for him. Then I'll try to figure out, over the course of the day, when and how to use that spell.

Any suggestions on how best to implement this? I could use it for his domain spells too (just a 50/50 chance for which domain spell the cleric gets, out of two domains, at each spell level). I would then select all but one of his regular spells at each spell level, and then roll randomly for the last spell of that spell level, from all the spells available in the campaign. I'd probably reroll any spells I had already choosen for the day, but maybe the deity was telling him to prepare that particular spell twice.