Why do clerics prepare spells?

[Kae'Yoss]

In the beginning, all D&D magic was vancian, so clerics had to "prepare" spells, too.

In fact, they pray for spells. It's just like arcane magic: the spellcasting actually takes longer, the forces need to be gathered, but you can do most of it beforehand.

I always thought that if a divine spellcasting class should get spontaneous casting, it should be the druid (and ranger). While a cleric's faith is formalized, druids are much more "natural" with their magic. Just like sorcerers are more natural with their magic than wizards.

 

[LostSoul]

I say that clerics are busy trying to understand the infinite nature of the divine. They need that time to get their mind in the proper state, where they can receive and wield the divine blessing.

A character who does all of those priestly things isn't really a member of the cleric class. You'd proabably need to come up with another base or NPC class to deal with that, and have them use spell-like abilities instead of spells.

 

[Jdvn1]

Er, yeah. I thiought the rules for open slots specifically cited wizards.

But if not, hey, that makes it seem to me all the more conclusive that cleric spell preparation is exactly as it should be.

The Rules of the Game article recommends Clerics leave slots open for this very purpose.

... Which isn't to say they're not often flawed. So take it as you will.

 

[Drew]

Think of it this way.....

The deity is NOT granting spells to the Cleric. Instead, he is granting the power that is used to cast the spell, the mana, if you will. How the Cleric shapes that mana, and what he uses it for are up to him. The spells that a Cleric has are mortal constructs that allows the Cleric to channel the divine mana/power/energy into effects that futher (or are at least supposed to) the aims and goals of the deity.

If the PH described divine magic as such, I would accept this. As it stands, you're just making something up to justify the results. Its a good explanation, but there really isn't anything in the rules to support it.

The spells that a Cleric has are mortal constructs that allows the Cleric to channel the divine mana/power/energy into effects that futher (or are at least supposed to) the aims and goals of the deity.

Then why can wizards only prepare spells he knows from a formal spellbook, while clerics have access to every spell in the PH (subject to character level and WIS, of course)?

I'm rather fond of the idea that divine spells are prescribed rituals that must be learned and practiced just like wizard spells, except the source of the power that makes the magic work comes from the gods instead of some arcane or internal source. I would have an easier time swallowing this explanation if the game rules reflected it.

Clerics should either have to learn spells just like wizards, or they should cast spontaneously.

 

[Drew]

I think about how real-world religions work.

For the miracle of transubstantiation (what level would bread to divine flesh be?), it takes a good 45 minutes of prayer, repetitive doctrine, communal beseeching, pattern and proactive help.

Preparing a spell is all but the final actions. In the example, the priest could spend the 45 minutes in the morning to prepare the spell, and hten only speak a few words and do a few actions at the moment of casting to release the energy.

Real-world religions often have kind of absurdly complex and lengthy ceremonial aspects, so I think it's fully appropriate for the D&D cleric to have that, too.

This helps me rationalize things a bit. Its not bad. Coupled with the idea of leaving spell slots open, it actually comes fairly close to satisfactory. Part of my problem is that I have a hard time ignoring the necessary metagame thinking that comes along with choosing your spells.

Its not "pray and fast until Zeus sends rain." It is in fact, ask Zeus in the morning to give you X number of spells from a laundry list of effects available to all clerics of all faiths. Later on, using your own power, you can go ahead and make it rain.

Its like you're praying twice: Once in the morning, you ask for the power to make it rain. Then, later that day, you ask god to make it rain.

To use a biblical example: When Moses faced the Pharoah's magicians, he used the equivalent of the old Sticks to Snakes spell. He didn't pray to Yahweh that morning to grant him that ability on the off chance that it came up. He just listened to the voice of God and cast the spell.

 

[Psion]

If the PH described divine magic as such, I would accept this. As it stands, you're just making something up to justify the results.

FWIW, that's pretty much the reason that the DDG gives that not all deities are packed with cleric levels: it's the mortal clerics that know how to cast spells; it's the deity that is the source of power.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

The biggest concern here is probably balance.

AFAIK, clerics used to be spontaneous spellcasters - complete spell list like usual, and cast like sorcerers - in the Beta Test phase. All spellcasters did. Then, they changed it back. Probably because this would make the cleric far too strong.

Cleric is the most powerful base class, anyway (or one of them). Increasing their power thus would only worse.


If you want a system, consider this:
They have their usual clerical magic. They also have prayers, which you don't have to prepare a prayer in the morning. But they're not casting time 1 action. They take longer. A lot longer. A simple "Kord grant me Strength" doesn't suffice. You must commune with your deity and try to "convince" him/her/it that you are worthy and in need of the power you request. As I said, they'd require time, and maybe also some skill checks, to gain the necessary power. Maybe a diplomacy roll, or Knowledge(Religion) (don't ever Try Bluff or Intimidate on your god!). There's a target DC, when ever you exceed the DC, you gain the excess as points. These have to exceed a certain number. You accumulate points each round. If the need is genuine, if you're exceptionally devout or a great crusader/evangelist/prosetylizer, or of others are praying with you, you can gain a bonus to your roll.

Here you go, a system to "pray fast to Zeus until it rains"

Change the system for arcane magic and have Incantations.

 

[The Human Target]

I agree that Vancian spell preperation can be a real pain, but not just for clerics. This is what I do with it. Wizards and clerics prepare spells just like in the PHB, but they don't have to leave spell slots open for later use. During the course of they day, should the need arise, they can again spend an hour (or a portion of an hour) to reprepare any spell slots they haven't already used up in the course the day. That way the still can't do it in a fight or at the drop of a hat like a Sorcerer or Bard, but they can still maintain some flexibilty.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=275673

Also, if you need a good spontaneous divine caster look here. It's called the Ultimate Incarnate, and its a very good base class. The only problem is the fact the class is balanced against other Ultimate classes, so its stronger than the players handbook versions. But I use all the Ultimate classes (with some modifications) so it isn't a problem.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The way I'd prefer to do Divine magic is, unfortunately, a lot of work for the DM, and not very predictable for the player.

The Cleric calls down the power of his god... and gets whatever effect the god deems appropriate, using the relevant spell slot.

Sometimes, the spell is the obvious choice. Horde of bugbears? Flame Strike, for example. Sometimes it isn't. "Well, we've tried everything else to open this door," the cleric says. "Maybe Olidammara can help..." But when he calls on the deity for assistance, instead of a spell to open the door, he receives a Find The Path, leading the long way around to reach the other side of the door, and burning a 6th level slot in the process. (Olidammara prefers subtlety to blasting everything in sight, after all.)

When another cleric attempts to cast a spell on the blinded and wounded captain of the guard, he receives a Cure Serious Wounds, but not a Remove Blindness... and then the cleric is left to try and figure out why his goddess doesn't feel this man's eyesight should be restored...

-Hyp.

 

[RuminDange]

One of the ways I tend to run cleric spell casting is granting them spontaneous spell casting for each spell level up to their wisdom modifier. But all other spell levels have to be prepared. Also if they wish to do metamagic they can either spend a full round casting to add the metamagic or prepare the spell with the metamagic feat. So a cleric with an 18 wisdom at 9th level can spontaneously cast up to 4th level spells but has to prepare his 5th level spells. I also allow any cleric to spontaneously swap out prepared spells for domain spells.

The way I see it and run it IMC is that the higher wisdom clerics would receive greater flexibility of the deities’ power. But then again the current campaign has a very heavy deity aspect with the deities very active through their followers. I also customize each cleric with abilities, limitations and spell lists that better represent the deity instead of just allowing full access.

It takes more work to customize the cleric this way and do similar things for ranger and paladins of the deities that have them, but it adds to the campaign world and the players really enjoy it. So far I’ve only had one player play a full cleric and one that plays a druid. Most of the others tend to pick up cleric as a second or third class later in the character career because it fits what is happening with the character.


RD