Why do clerics prepare spells?

[Psion]

As you and others have mentioned, this is a very cool idea but it requires a lot of work from the DM and steals some thunder from the player.

Might I recommend:

Use action points and let the player handle it?

I use the UA action point variant, and assume there is a set of feats out there that basically allow you to spontaneously cast one spell of your designation. So spend an action point to convert a spell to a spell of your choice.

Then explain this retroactively as your deity having decided to award you an alternate spell today. "I knew the blessed one must have known I needed this spell, but I didn't know why until just now..."

 

[Rasyr]

If the PH described divine magic as such, I would accept this. As it stands, you're just making something up to justify the results. Its a good explanation, but there really isn't anything in the rules to support it.

Then why can wizards only prepare spells he knows from a formal spellbook, while clerics have access to every spell in the PH (subject to character level and WIS, of course)?

I'm rather fond of the idea that divine spells are prescribed rituals that must be learned and practiced just like wizard spells, except the source of the power that makes the magic work comes from the gods instead of some arcane or internal source. I would have an easier time swallowing this explanation if the game rules reflected it.

Clerics should either have to learn spells just like wizards, or they should cast spontaneously.

Actually, not made, other than in the sense that this is the rational I use for Clerics in a different system.

 

[Celebrim]

Mostly I think because Clerics are already arguably the most powerful and versital class in the game, and if it didn't have to prepare spells it would be even better

However, it's worth noting that most people assumptions about clerics in D&D are based on ideas taken from Judeo-Christianity and that none of these assumptions need be true for a particular D&D cosmology.

For example, if you asked the average player whether the concept of clerics and faith were related, they would probably tell you, 'Sure. Obviously'. But in fact, the concept of faith doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the average D&D setting. Faith implies that you need to believe in things you cannot see, but D&D clerics get very visible affirmations of thier faith on a daily basis. Belief in the existance or power of the diety is therefore not necessarily a central issue of the religious discussions of D&D clerics and may in fact have nothing to do with how powerful of a cleric you are in the average campaign.

Likewise, the spell casting clerics do does't necessarily have anything to do with prayer and subsequent intercession on behalf of the cleric by the diety. While a Christian priest would never say that he performs any miracle through his own power, the same is explicitly not the case in Gygax's 1st edition discussion of where clerical spell power comes from. Specifically, according to Gygax, 3rd level and lower spells are direct manifestations of the cleric's personal magical prowess which implies that they are in some way not all that different from arcane spell casters.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Priest goes to church and begins morning prayer.

"Please [god_name], grant me the strength to heal those in need [cure light wounds], to vanquish my foes [divine favor], to root out the unnatural things that are your enemy [detect undead]. When my enemies come to assault me, let their blows go astray [doom]. When my allies strike in return, let their blows strike true [bless]."

Then he goes out for the day.

The average 7th level cleric, say, has 24 spell slots. That makes for a long, boring, silly-sounding prayer

-Hyp.

 

[Lasher Dragon]

The average 7th level cleric, say, has 24 spell slots. That makes for a long, boring, silly-sounding prayer

-Hyp.

At high levels, sooner or later the party is gonna start wondering if it really is worth waiting around for hours on end for all this healing.

 

[Drew]

The average 7th level cleric, say, has 24 spell slots. That makes for a long, boring, silly-sounding prayer

-Hyp.

And please, oh god of the brackets, grant me the ability to breath like a fish, should that come up. And, uh...speak to dandelions! Yes, that may be useful. And finally, oh great [god_name], although you are truly merciful and good, grant me the power to raise up really wicked and powerful undead creations, so that I might smite evil with them...in thy mercy!

For example, if you asked the average player whether the concept of clerics and faith were related, they would probably tell you, 'Sure. Obviously'. But in fact, the concept of faith doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the average D&D setting. Faith implies that you need to believe in things you cannot see, but D&D clerics get very visible affirmations of thier faith on a daily basis. Belief in the existance or power of the diety is therefore not necessarily a central issue of the religious discussions of D&D clerics and may in fact have nothing to do with how powerful of a cleric you are in the average campaign.

Which is why one of two things needs to be changed: the design of clerics or the explanation of their magic. If the PH did a better job defining what the cleric is and isn't supposed to be, I'd have an easier time adjudicating their place in my campaign. The Eberron Campaign setting does a good job of this by establishing clerics as the martial wing of the church, not the rank and file members of the basic priesthood.

This creates another problem in my mind, however:
If clerics are the holy crusaders of D&D, capable of bringing the fight to the forces that oppose their god(s) with strength of arms and magic...why the heck do we have paladins? What role are they filling that isn't also filled by the cleric?

Without getting into the realm of houserules, I wonder if we couldn't just add a "priest" NPC class and toss paladins out the window.

 

[Drew]

...and Zeus is like "Cool, yeah, I'll be there for you, but you better show me what you want with the proper ritual before I actually give it to you."

I never realized that Father Zeus is such a hip dude. I was all like, "Zeus, centaurs!" And Zeus was like, "Its cool, man, I got your back." FLAMESTRIKE!

 

[JoeBlank]

Might I recommend:

Use action points and let the player handle it?

I use the UA action point variant, and assume there is a set of feats out there that basically allow you to spontaneously cast one spell of your designation. So spend an action point to convert a spell to a spell of your choice.

Then explain this retroactively as your deity having decided to award you an alternate spell today. "I knew the blessed one must have known I needed this spell, but I didn't know why until just now..."

That is a good use for action points, and I may consider it at some time in the future. But my current campaign is almost completely core rules. I can convince them to allow some new feats or spells, but action points means an entire new rule system.

For now, I'll just try out the one-random-spell-per-spell-level method, and see how that works. In truth, I am introducing no new rules. Instead, I am just adding a random element to how I select my PCs spells for the day.

 

[Celebrim]

If the PH did a better job defining what the cleric is and isn't supposed to be, I'd have an easier time adjudicating their place in my campaign. The Eberron Campaign setting does a good job of this by establishing clerics as the martial wing of the church, not the rank and file members of the basic priesthood.

I can't help but think that at some level you are expecting the rank and file members of the church to look something like Catholic priests, or at least the system of organization of the church to be something like the Catholic priesthood. Why can't armor wearing spell casting clerics be the rank and file members of your average priesthood? What's unrealistic about a society that expects all its priests to be trained battle leaders with mystical abililties? Isn't that more or less what the priests of the Teutonic gods were like? Ever noticed that like every (good) Norse god is a warrior god with War as part of thier portfolio no matter what else they are into? Hey look, it's Sif the goddess of the Hearth, Family, and War, and Freya the goddess of love, sex, and war.

In my opinion, the best treatment of D&D religion ever is Aaron Loeb's 'The Book of the Righteous' (currently on sell from Green Ronin, pick it up if you don't have it). Although it isn't perfect, its still so much more of what a 'Deities and Demigods' book should be like than anything TSR has ever done. I've got quibbles with some of its alignment stuff, and Aaron doesn't really get away from the problem of D&D priesthoods looking like the Catholic church, but he does _explain it_ in a largely coherent way.

 

[Nyeshet]

The Catholic priesthood is often used as an example due to it being the predominant religion in (the western two-thirds of) europe during the middle ages. It had its knightly monastic orders - which is what the current cleric class is based off, if I'm not mistaken, but these were separate - or at least distinct - from the priesthood in several ways.

My view of a Priest (not a monastic knight) is more akin to something like this:

01 Divine Channelling, Religious Specialization
02 Divine Aura, First Domain
03 Divine Guidance, Lay on Hands
04 Touch of Courage
05 Divine Grace
06 Touch of Vitality
07 Touch of Freedom, Second Domain
08 Blest Health
09 Touch of Sight
10 Touch of Health
11 Blest Body, Divine Favor
12 Touch of Blessing
13 Touch of Purification
14 Eternal Devotion
15 Touch of Clarity
16 Touch of Liberation
17 Third Domain, Blest Perseverance
18 Touch of Restoration
19 Touch of Life
20 Divine Emisary, Eternal Body

Spells per Day*[u]
LV  0  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9[/u]
01  1  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
etc
10  4  3  3  2  1  0  -  -  -  -
etc
20  5  5  5  4  4  4  3  3  2  1

* Not including bonus spells from a high Wis.
Note that all spell casters in my games have delayed progression, due to being a lower magic world. They do get other advantages, however.

Blest Health/Body/etc grant a bonus (based on class level) to various afflictions (disease, poison, etc). The various Touch abilities use increasingly high number of Lay on Hands points to heal various afflictions. Curing blindness (or deafness, for that matter) requires 8 points. For half again as many points (12) the priest can attempt to inflict such instead, but every time a divine ability is used there is a chance the deity will notice. And if the priest inflicts (or cures, for that matter) against their patron deity's wishes, it will go the worse for them (from failure of the ability to occur - despite lost Lay on Hands points, to perm loss of powers - until an atonement after a quest). With Divine Guidance the priest really has no reason to say they were unaware of their deity's wishes. (Basically a sense of dis/approval in regards to a single specific action, requires one full round of contempation).

So my idea of a priest (not playtested, as this is spur of the moment creation) basically is a delayed caster with a lot of healing type abilities and various resistances to physical ailments and those that might seek to drive them from their deity (eternal devotion). They don't get spontaneous casting, but then they they don't really need it.

I'm currently working on a new idea for casting spells, for clerics and other casters alike. Perhaps the idea of it will have some interest to you - or spark your own imagination for such.

When they prepare their spells they choose to refresh their memory on specific spells from the list of known spells. Then they can spontaneously cast from that (smaller) list. Each day they may change one spell per level (one 1st level spell, one 2nd level spell, etc) on their (shorter) list through this type of study / meditation / prayer. I'm playing with the idea of a means of changing a single spell later on with 15 min of prayer/study/whatever and perhaps a check (Will save? Concentration check? Spellcraft check?) - a sort of 'on the fly' means of alteration.

I'm not sure how well this system will work, but it is sort of an intermediary between the preparation system and the spontaneous casting system. The idea of one spell per level per day alteration means some forethought will be needed if they know a dungeon / encounter will occur in a few days, but the 15 min system might allow for getting that needed spell when really needed. I'm also considering the idea of - instead of 15 minutes - allowing the casting of non-prepared spells as normal but with longer casting time: one full round plus one full round per level, minimum. So a zeroth level non-prepared spell would take one full round to cast, a first level spell two full rounds to cast, etc. If a spell has a longer casting duriation than one round, the duration is increased (by the multiple of the level? perhaps doubled the longer duration?).

This entire alternate system has a several bugs to shake out (likely more than I am aware of), but I think it may have merit.