Why do DM's like Dark, gritty worlds and players the opposite?

[S'mon]

It seems like players (myself now included) want worlds where you can play any race/any class and they all get along in some kind of colorful, happy world where we can just "push the win button."

That doesn't sound quite right. Players do like options (race/class) and for their PCs to be powerful, but not to be unchallenged ('push the win button'). Personally I don't like 'they all get along', I prefer a plausible level of racial animosity.

I think re grim & gritty, GMs can use it as an excuse to be mean to, restrict, and railroad the players. I'm not a big fan of grim & gritty as player or GM.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Exactly. Although rare (fortunately), I've run into players of the "look at my new shiny" mode who would have balked at the idea of being forced into being an escaped prisoner.

Aside grump: I remember a campaign where the characters began tied up and naked in an ally. We stole clothes from a line and the DM expected up to use our measly chance of pick pocket but we lured the town burghers into an alley a hit them over the head with a 2x4 before robbing then blind.

Hump: kids these days... mutter mutter

 

[FireLance]

I tend to agree that if you enjoy DMing in dark and gritty worlds (however you define the term) you will probably enjoy playing in dark and gritty worlds, and vice-versa. (I personally like neither, but in a way, that's a supporting case.)

However, DMs liking dark and gritty worlds while players do not does seem to be a common perception. What I'm guessing is that the root cause is a playstyle mismatch. However, while playstyle mismatches can go both ways, we tend to hear complaints from only one side of the mismatch.

I guess it's because players who have access to options that they don't want simply don't take those options. They don't feel the need to complain about it online. Similarly, players whose characters are defeating their opponents more easily than they expected, or who find more treasure than they anticipated, or who find themselves doing much better overall than they thought they would don't really get upset when it happens.

 

[Desdichado]

Is as anecdotal as everything else.

Exactly; the entire premise is anecdotal. Hence my question---why should I accept it as true when it is not a match for my own experience anyway?

Actually, in my experience, there is no sharp divide between players and GMs. Most GMs also really enjoy playing. Many players also enjoy GMing, or at least thinking about doing so.

I don't know about other GMs, but I run the kinds of games that I wish someone would run for me. Since nobody does, I run them myself.

 

[Desdichado]

I find it interesting that a bar in a 'Wretched hive of scum and villany' is held up as an example of not gritty. Even through getting the party together in that bar involved two deaths and a limbing, as well as rampant prejudice against droids.

What would that scene have need to qualify as 'gritty' in your book? Biowarfare?

Win.

 

[Ariosto]

I would not say "upset", sure, but I have been a bit disappointed because of the "giveaway" in a current campaign. That's part of a bigger issue of its being more DM-driven (as opposed to "sandbox") than I would prefer, which has also manifested in openly arbitrary rulings against effective play.

With all the special house-rule boosts and conveniences given the PCs, that game is just the opposite of "gritty"! To me, as a player, that just makes it less interesting.

It's not that a high-powered game can't be done well to my mind; this just happens not to fit the bill. It's not devoid of interest, either, or else I would not be playing! The other players like it more, my reservations being a minority opinion.

 

[wolff96]

Although I should mention that rat catcher is a official starting career in Warhammer.

And it's a fun one. You get a vicious little ratting dog! I kept one alive through the entire campaign...

 

[Wombat]

Why do DM's tend like Dark, gritty worlds and players like colorful worlds where they can do/play anything?

In at least a couple of the games I have run, my players were the ones who complained that the world wasn't dark and gritty enough.

I guess different gaming groups have different experiences that way; probably the best explanation for it.

 

[Desdichado]

Yes, yes, everyone is unique in their own way, individuals are the exception to the rule, etc.

Just because individuals might vary doesn't mean that meaningful trends cannot be established. What is being said here is that there seems to be a disproportionately high number of DMs who want to run gritty worlds, and a relatively low number of players interested in playing in those gritty worlds.

You can't have it both ways. If you're going to complain about my "data" being anecdotal, then you can't very well say that there's a "meaningful trend" based on your anecdotal "data."

 

[MarkB]

Agree on both counts. However, neither lends themselves to the "Strangers in a Bar/Tavern join to save the world/kingdom/damsel".

Well, naturally not for the second part, since "save the world/kingdom/damsel" plots are out of place in a grim'n'gritty setting.

"Strangers in a Bar/Tavern get hired for a slightly-dodgy-but-temptingly-lucrative job by a morally ambiguous patron", on the other hand, fits right in.