D&D General Why Do People Hate Gnomes?

[Chaosmancer]

I really don't think associations in any of your example cases are nearly as strong as with rock gnomes, but yes, in general I would prefer a lesser number of conceptually broader yet thematically coherent races over the current situation of insane amount of stupidly narrowly flanderised races which still manage to thematically overlap with each other.

Really?

Wood elves are really only known for using bows and protecting the forest. That's it. That is their entire identity, how is that more than just "They are rangers"?

And Rock Gnomes have other things going for them as well. They are the more city and urban of the gnomes. They tend to be scholars, tutors and teachers of the urban areas. In other settings they are into the bureaucracy of empires. They also still do have a love of illusion and magic, even if they don't master it to the degree of all of them having the minor illusion cantrip.

Compare this to Mountain and Hill Dwarves. These are dwarves that live in mountains. These are dwarves that live in hills. Oh! And the Duergar, these are dwarves that are evil. Can't specify they live underground, because all dwarves do that.


The thing is, gnomes ARE thematically coherent. They can be conceptually broad if given the chance (notably, other than the Snirvfelbin which are the weakest thematically, there have been no new gnomes for a LONG time.) You just don't like them.

 

[Hussar]

And there it is. All criticism is swept aside with the blanket, “oh you just don’t like them”.

Okay. Name three classic adventures that feature gnomes. Name three classic fantasy stories with gnomes as central characters.

Gnomes have just never really been very popular or attracted any real interest by the hobby or the genre.

 

[Vaalingrade]

And there it is. All criticism is swept aside with the blanket, “oh you just don’t like them”.

Which itself is pretty valid when the question is literally 'why do you hate them?'

"Because I don't like them' is pretty solid.

 

[CleverNickName]

All too often on the Internet, the question "why do you hate this" gets confused with "why should everybody hate this?" and the two are just not the same question at all. It gets even stickier with the original question in the first post, "why do other people hate this?"

You're right, @Vaalingrade. We're talking about personal preferences of a fictional topic...there can't be a right or wrong answer (and it would be weird if there could). "Because I don't like them" is as valid a reason as any other, and "Well I disagree" is the best possible rebuttal.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I also think it is a shame that if someone doesn't think the current iteration of the concept is 100% perfect it gets construed as "hate."

I don't "hate" gnomes, I really like the sort of characters gnomes often are. But I still don't think they're distinct enough from halflings. I would prefer them either to be merged or made more distinct. Currently they're super similar.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

We're talking about personal preferences of a fictional topic...there can't be a right or wrong answer (and it would be weird if there could). "Because I don't like them" is as valid a reason as any other, and "Well I disagree" is the best possible rebuttal.

I think the best possible rebuttal to "Because I don't like them," is ...

"Well, that's impossible. I am a brain in vat and you (along with everyone else) is just a projection made by me. Since I like them, it follows that you do as well since you are me."

Unfortunately, I find that this better rebuttal often leads to other questions.

 

[CleverNickName]

I also think it is a shame that if someone doesn't think the current iteration of the concept is 100% perfect it gets construed as "hate."

Oooof yeah, that's a big one here on the Internet, too. Any criticism at all is immediately treated as hatred by those who disagree.

I'll never forget the time that I suggested a certain edition of D&D was inspired by MMORPGs. I didn't say it was a bad thing, I didn't say it was a good thing, I just mentioned that I could see it. I thought it was interesting (still do). Well. It caused such an uproar that folks got kicked out and the thread got locked before the sun went down.

People get really itchy when it comes to protecting their darlings.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

All too often on the Internet, the question "why do you hate this" gets confused with "why should everybody hate this?" and the two are just not the same question at all. It gets even stickier with the original question in the first post, "why do other people hate this?"

You're right, @Vaalingrade. We're talking about personal preferences of a fictional topic...there can't be a right or wrong answer (and it would be weird if there could). "Because I don't like them" is as valid a reason as any other, and "Well I disagree" is the best possible rebuttal.

But a lot of people have tried to give specific reasons why they hate them (or why they think others hate them). Or they make ridiculous blanket statements ("It is impossible for two gnomes under the guidelines to have different personalities" or "Gnomes have literally no source material in the folklore/pop culture"). Which can all be easily disproven.

No one is trying to force/require anyone else to like Gnomes. This thread did give some good answers, like "I had a bad experience with someone playing them", "I didn't like the Dragonlance version of them", and "I prefer Halflings and think they're too similar". However, the thread has also been filled with a bunch of jokes (like the ones the OP was talking about), people saying they should be removed from the game even if people like them, and people making bizarre claims about the official versions of them having no real source in the folklore (which is kind of a strange claim for a game with Dragonborn and Halflings in them).

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Do we seriously have two threads where we're somehow debating whether or not a specific player can RP a character against the type presented in the PH and acting like the fact that players have no regard for the default flavor (or lack thereof) absolves the default flavor (or lack thereof)?

I don't know. What two threads are those? Because I haven't seen anyone do that in this thread.

And complaining that a player has "no regard for the default flavor" when they take a different spin on the typical traits of a Gnome is like complaining that Drizzt is a good guy that worships Mielikki because the typical drow born in Menzoberranzan is supposed to be evil and worship Lolth.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I also think it is a shame that if someone doesn't think the current iteration of the concept is 100% perfect it gets construed as "hate."

Just going to put my hat into the 'hate' ring.

My hate is pure; a gleaming, pristine hate that I wear as a happy mantle. The kind of hate a man can only have for fictional earth spirits who go caught in D&D's blender. It keeps me warm at night.