D&D General Why Do People Hate Gnomes?

Gnomes, I think, missed the boat on being a first-round race. Elves, dwarves, and halflings were all established really early in the games run as distinct classes. As classes, they needed to be complete characters: there's a bit of chicken-and-egg here, but like most early DnD classes they were designed to emulate specific characters from fiction, but rather quickly were expanded into entire peoples.

If gnomes were included that early, I feel they would be just as established. But that would need there to be a popular gnome character to emulate. I don't know of any such character, but I'm not an expert on the history of fantasy fiction.

All the races that were added after that first round and had good traction had a strong hook. Half-elves, half-orcs and tieflings were/are all edgy, which is always popular. Half-orcs and goliaths are big strong guys. Dragonborn are dragons.

Gnomes' hook seems to be 'wacky engineers' - which isn't the least popular hook but isn't as popular as edgy or dragon seems to be.

All the races shift and expand over time. Heck, at this point I'd sat dwarves, elves, and halflings don't have a central idea anymore - but they're established in the imaginations of the player base, so they're not going anywhere. Gnomes aren't quite there. They're close, though.
 

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CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
I guess to me they just feel kinda redundant. It doesn't help that garden gnomes are known as Gartenzwerge -garden dwarves- in German. Muddying their unique identity even further.

But since they combine a lot of dwarfish and elvish tropes, I usually use them as the mixed offspring of those two. They conveniently already have corresponding subraces to the common elven subraces. So Dwarf+Wood Elf= Forest Gnome; Dwarf+Drow=Deep Gnome and Dwarf+High Elf= Rock Gnome.
This is my favorite new take so far.
 



Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Max, you seem to be of the impression that these folks are saying the feats were overpowered.

I'm fairly sure they are saying most of these feats were crappy. Like really, really awful, "why would anyone ever take this" bad.
Because powergamers take crappy feats! ;)

It doesn't matter, though. They are only crappy(and even that's debatable) if the DM doesn't adjust for them.
 

Because powergamers take crappy feats! ;)

It doesn't matter, though. They are only crappy(and even that's debatable) if the DM doesn't adjust for them.
How, exactly, does a DM adjust for something like Mobility or the ur-example of "a total waste of a feat," Toughness? And why is it the DM's job to continually fix the system when it offers crappy options?
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
How, exactly, does a DM adjust for something like Mobility or the ur-example of "a total waste of a feat," Toughness? And why is it the DM's job to continually fix the system when it offers crappy options?
The DM was already doing it. The CR system was so broken that it couldn't be used, so the DM needed to choose creatures based on what the party could do. That's how you adjust for those feats. You just didn't give them much weight when comparing party ability vs. creature.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Oh, it gets even worse.

Tabaxi do get darkvision. And the part of the race that explains why they get darkvision says it's because "You have a cat’s keen senses, especially in the dark."

So, in D&D 5e, cats don't have darkvision, but the catfolk race does, and the reason why the catfolk get darkvision is because they have the senses of . . . a cat.
Tbf, I think they meant for keen senses to make critters good at navigating the darkness, but then didn’t add something to make that actually work.
 

Whereas I'm mostly the reverse. I love seeing what creative things people come up with for these options, and find most people fall back on tired, cliche, dull, repetitive tropes with most of the so-called "common" races.
honestly, it is not that there are more possible interesting ways to take the Tolkien classics but it is hard to generate the remaining ones.
so honestly, I want a setting without dwarves, halflings or elves just to see what could be built without them?
 





honestly, I looked and found them fairly mundane but maybe I have different standards.
They have some more alien faces and some more humanlike faces, but the difference really shows up when you flip between gnome and halfling. Larian's halflings look like small humans with the cute dialled up to 11. Some of the gnome faces could pass for grey aliens.
 
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MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
the subject is light, text is dense and built for a different time which is to say it is a good story but a chore to read it took me weeks to read.
I want to argue with you, but I felt the same way when I tried to read Alice in Wonderland to my kids. I still love the story and have memorized many of the poetry, but I just found it dry to read when I went to read it out loud to my kids. :-/
 

Hasbro only has to produce some cartoon for all the family about gnomes, and the little children will want to play with PC gnomes in their first games. Maybe a funny story set in Witchlight. Impossible? Let's remember that animated saga about a greenskin ogre named "Shrek", or Dreamwork' (Damm) Trolls.

And they are perfect in a D&D horror story because the audence don't guess them the stereotype or final girl or survivor who kick-ass monsters.

They haven't to be alwasy rogues or illusionists, but also the riders of some monster mount(/pet) or tinkerer/alchimist/mad scientifics.

r-m-d-d-rick-1125402.jpg


 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
They have some more alien faces and some more humanlike faces, but the difference really shows up when you flip between gnome and halfling. Larian's halflings look like small humans with the cute dialled up to 11. Some of the gnome faces could pass for grey aliens.
Well, that matches what's in the Core books.
 

Edgar Ironpelt

Explorer
D&D often has this very Tolkien-derived thing where it's like "X is the kingdom of the Elves, Y is the kingdom of the Dwarves, Z is the lands of the Halflings" and so on, which I feel is a bit... retro... if I was designing a new setting, whilst an area might well be "majority [race]", I think an awful lot of cultures wouldn't be primarily monoracial, especially if the races had been living side-by-side for millennia, as is typically the case in D&D-esque fantasy. Only isolationist/nationalist/exclusionist societies would be.
One can easily justify going in either direction with world building. Isolationist/nationalist/exclusionist societies were very common historically (and still are, one could argue), and that's without the large, real, and undeniable biological differences seen in D&D Land, or the even larger ones of Tolkien's Middle Earth. And you don't have to impute that much isolationism or exclusionism to people who would rather be ruled by their "own kind" - who aren't unfriendly toward the people of the next-door kingdom, but who still would prefer "home rule" or "self rule" over being ruled by that next-door kingdom of a different people.

On the other hand, the "X is the kingdom of the Elves, Y is the kingdom of the Dwarves, Z is the land of the Halflings" setup does feel unattractively stiff and stereotyped, especially if taken to extremes. (Note that not even Tolkien had a single Kingdom of the Elves or Kingdom of the Dwarves, but rather multiple kingdoms of elves and of dwarves.) I personally prefer a cosmopolitan setup where language, religion, culture, and being a loyal subject to the human prince Whoever or the dwarf-queen Whatshername overrides the importance of being an elf or a halfling. What bugs me more than "X is the kingdom of the Elves..." is "A is the Deity of the Elves, B and C are the Deities of the Dwarves, and D is the Deity of the Halflings"
 

Belen

Adventurer
Serious question, as I've seen a ton of people online that play D&D make jokes about Gnomes or say how much they hate them. More than Kender, actually.

So . . . what is it about Gnomes that makes people hate them so much? Or such easy targets for jokes online?
My wife once played a gnome paladin of the goddess of love named Rosalyn Wocket who's father owned Wocket's Rockets. Enough said.
 


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