Why do people pretend CR makes sense?

[Raven Crowking]

Er, what?

Your thesis regarding the ease of calculating appropriate encounters in 1e is severely damaged by the fact that you failed to even *answer* the question posed by Ridley's Cohort.

Monster Levels, incidentally, are the WRONG answer. Are you proposing that an archdevil is an appropriate encounter for a group of 10th (er, X-) level 1e adventurers? Or that a demilich is appropriate for 9th-level adventurers?

The question posed by Ridley's Cohort had nothing to do with the system, but rather with how the system was presented.

When you hit 10th level characters, in either edition, you can break the system by using ML or CR. Again, if some CR or ML does seem too high or too low, then you just add/subtract one or a few. Problem solved.

 

[Nyaricus]

Considering we use a system that can model gods and dogs with the same numbers, and that attempt to boils down all of the possible combinations of both players with their feats, prcs, and abilities and monsters with their own list of power and abilities to a single number....I think the CR system does remarkably well.

QFT

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

That's pretty easy to figure out. You just add XP for the abilities the monster effectively used in play.

Come to think of it, if CR worked that way it would work better. The zillion magical abilities a demon *could* use don't affect play. The ones they *do* use are what makes them dangerous.

I am wondering how much more XP I would gain from killing a Sorceror who hammers my friends with 3 Fireballs instead of only 2.

It makes sense to add circumstance modifiers, especially for scenarios when particular significant abilities will not come into play. But specific abilities not explicitly used in the encounters often are factors.

If my Wizard chooses not to Fireball the demons, do I get no XP for their SR and Fire Resistance?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The question posed by Ridley's Cohort had nothing to do with the system, but rather with how the system was presented.

I might be convinced if you were to complete the quiz and show your work.

 

[MerricB]

I'm trying to work out if RC actually understands what "monster level" in AD&D meant.

It isn't compared to PC level at all in any stage of the process. The roman numeral indicates which random dungeon monster table the monster should appear on.

Table I includes such entries as "1-3 Zombies" and "13-18 Orcs". (I might be mistaken as to exact numbers, but that's pretty close).

Cheers!

 

[Raven Crowking]

I might be convinced if you were to complete the quiz and show your work.

The main question in your "pop quiz" is askable in either system:

(1) You are DMing 4 7th level PCs. You want too give them 2 separate combats today -- something not too taxing but not a complete walkover either. How much XP worth of monster do you throw at them?

Your second question could be asked using either CR or Monster Levels with exactly the same result:

(2) You are DMing 4 7th level PCs. You want too give them 2 separate combats today -- something not too taxing but not a complete walkover either. How much CR worth of monster do you throw at them?

(2) You are DMing 4 7th level PCs. You want too give them 2 separate combats today -- something not too taxing but not a complete walkover either. How many Monster Levels worth of monster do you throw at them?

You are mistaking presentation for content. Moreover, you are attempting to "prove" that the content is substantially different on the basis of the presentation being substantially different. Your questions are based on the conflation of the two. The disparity between presentation has nothing to do with the similarity of content.

RC

 

[satori01]

I find CR to be a better system than the old 1e XP listings, or the table in the 1e DMG.
Beyond just coming up with a numeric value for XP, the 3.5 CR also gives the DM a pretty good guide to what will be an appropriate challenge to his party.

I loved 1e, but as a player I can remember plenty of times when as a 2nd level party, (which probably meant some players were only 1st level), a DM would throw a Gargoyle or Two at us, and no one had any magic items yet.

Pretty much meant you could not hurt the creature. CR system back then would have alleviated the problem. Likewise, at the higher end, when the group of 12 level adventures kills a Hobgoblin Village, and starts adding up the xp for the Turkey Shot... problem alleviated in 3.5.

 

[Agent Oracle]

How do you apply the CR system to gods? What is the relationship between DR (Divine Rank) and CR?

Cthulhu, (an elder god) is CR 33, according to Call of Cthulhu d20 edition.
Eliminster is CR 35.

Chew that one over for a few seconds, it'll give you an impression of how well the CR system handles gods.

Though, to be fair, It's a better impression of how annoyingly overpowered a GMPC is.

 

[Crothian]

Cthulhu, (an elder god) is CR 33, according to Call of Cthulhu d20 edition.
Eliminster is CR 35.

I think that is more of a reflection that d20 CoC and D&D are not the same game. So, what is CR 10 in one game is not CR 10 in the other.

 

[eyebeams]

I am wondering how much more XP I would gain from killing a Sorceror who hammers my friends with 3 Fireballs instead of only 2.

You probably wouldn't scale it that fine. The ability to use third level spells would count if the sorcerer used at least one of them.

If my Wizard chooses not to Fireball the demons, do I get no XP for their SR and Fire Resistance?

You'd probably always include resistances and other constant abilities.