Why do players like rogues/thieves?

[OnlineDM]

I'm guessing that players can probably relate to being a rogue more easily than being a fighter or wizard. Fighters should be big, strong warriors. Wizards bend reality to their will with a thought.

Rogues, by comparison, are more like regular human beings. They don't have to be super-muscled, and they don't use magic. If your typical D&D player were to adopt a class in the real world, rogue would be a reasonable choice.

Now, we're playing a fantasy role playing game here, so it's also fun to pretend to be something you're not. But if players are looking for a role that they could actually imagine themselves in, I could see rogue being a good choice.

 

[Noir le Lotus]

People like playing rogues because, when you kill dragons, demons or other monsters, there is more panache in doing this as a 50 lbs halfling with a butter knife than as a 250 lbs barbarian with a great axe.

 

[KidSnide]

What this thread is driving home for me is that Sneak Attack isn't the point of the class.

You could have SA, or a Backstab, or none of those, and the rogue would still be an appealing option for archetype purposes.

I do think it should be AN option (it's become archetypal of D&D rogues), but it shouldn't be the DEFINING option -- rogues are much more than just a sneak attack delivery system.

IMO, this is sort of one of the ways 4e missed the boat on the class. It became much more pigeonholed in its role as "skirmishing damage-dealer." There's a lot more potential with the rogue than that one playstyle.

I agree. The heart of the rogue class is in its non-combat role.

That having been said, I think the popularity of Sneak Attack is not the ability itself, but what it delivered: a rogue class that doesn't suck in combat. In D&D combat is common/important enough that non-sucking in that aspect of the game is critical to a class. That having been said, I don't think Sneak Attack has to be the method for providing combat efficacy (although it's a good option). For example, in 4e terms, I could imagine a "trickster" rogue build who has a wide variety of condition-imposing attacks and works as a martial melee controller.

-KS

 

[Wulfram]

It's nice to be the swashbuckling guy who fights using skill and wits.

From a gameplay point of view, being mobile and doing lots of damage is fun

 

[Radiating Gnome]

I agree. The heart of the rogue class is in its non-combat role.

That was a lot more true in versions of the game that were a lot less combat-encounter centric -- but there's been a steady progression in the game towards more investment in combat and less outside of combat -- so the rogue has needed a flavorful combat tool, like sneak attack, to be interesting and playable.

I've always appreciated that the 4e rogue gets slightly better striker bonus damage than the other classes, with the caveat that they have to work harder to earn the bonus -- use tactics rather than simple mechanics like rangers and warlocks.

When I sit back and consider it, I feel like I would hate to lose the rogue's current viability in combat. But that feeling is based on years - decades, really, of gradually more and more combat focused gaming. If you take a combat-weak 1e rogue and drop him into a 4e style game, it won't be all that playable.

So, to accept the idea of a more skills-based, less combat-viable rogue, I would need to also trust that the new game would put higher value on those aspects of the character than the current version does.

-rg

 

[am181d]

The problem that I have is that early editions of the game assumed that all rogues were THIEVES. Skills were hard coded around thieving activities and, you know, there was the class name...

With third edition, the class might as well have been called "The Sneak Attacker." You suddenly had tremendous choice around skill selection, but everybody was stuck with this one very specific ability.

Rogue is a great class for a gluttonous merchant or a spindly, easily spooked scholar, EXCEPT for Sneak Attack.

I'm happy for Sneak Attack (or Backstab) to exist as a feat/ability/power/tree, but I want to be able to replace it with something else, so that every single rogue isn't foisted into the exact same role in combat.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Lots of reasons

- Alignment/outlook: Look, I'm all for being the good guy and all. But...man is it nice to be a class where "looking out for numero uno" is hardwired into the class flavor. zif I feel like being selfless or nice, I can. If I feel like insisting on just compensation, fair splitting of the loot, NOT throwing away a perfectly good ambush set up, disrespecting legitimate authority who also happen to be jerks... I can totally do that! There's no hang ups, no outside pressure to act a certain way. I can't overrate how awesome that is.

- I like skirmishers. And I like acrobatic combatants. And "spectacle fights" where you're just doing crazy awesome stuff, for lack of a better phrasing. Rogue's expected to somersault around, roll through legs, run on people's shoulders, and deliver visually spectacular vicious hits. I LOVE that stuff! Being flashy is great. Being in full plate standing still slogging it out or "making a stand" bores the hell out of me. It's just more interesting and exciting to play a "dodge tank" than it is an "armor tank."

- Skills and versatility. Rogues (in theory, not in practice) are the troubleshooter, the skill monkey. The clever, smart hero that overcomes any sort of odd problem with some sort of Macguyver solution.

There's plenty more reasons I don't feel like trying to articulate right now, but those are definitely the major ones and many others are in a way subsets of those.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Because the Gray Mouser had better lines than Fafherd?

 

[Mark CMG]

Why do players like rogues/thieves?

Not when someone else plays them.

 

[steeldragons]

I think it's as easy as asking "Why does anyone play a RPG like D&D?"

1) [and this goes for mages, barbarians, whatever] You get to be something you are not in real life. This is a fantasy game. And putting oneself in the fantasy is enjoyable.

2) As others have stated, the Rogue/Thief class allows for such a wide range of characters to play.

3) It's fun to be "bad". Or at least to break the law with impunity...or where no laws (or a limited legal system) exists. Can't do that in the real world. But you can scale the tower, diffuse the traps, steal the crown jewels and tightrope walk your way to safety with impunity in D&D as a thief.