D&D 5E Why do so few 5E monsters have save proficiencies?
- Thread starter el-remmen
- Start date
First, in many cases, creature's are under control of the builder. A monster with +5 con and another monster with +2 con and a +3 save proficiency are identical -- the +2 con one can just have more HP.
Second, for attack stats, increasing your attack stat gives you higher accuracy. While granting save proficiency doesn't. A monster that misses all of the time is boring; so deciding between +5 strength and +2 strength +3 proficiency, going with +5 strength works.
Save proficiencies (and skills) makes the stat block very slightly more complex. You get more bang for the complexity buck if you drop it all things being equal; especially with low modifiers. A +2 bonus has less information:math than a +6 bonus does, so adding save proficiencies (or skill proficiency) has better bang:buck at higher CRs.
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There may be deeper reasons. For example, lagging of save proficiencies from CR 1-8 would result in spellcasters gaining in power-per-action. If then save proficiencies became more common from CR 9-30, this happens around the same time that spellcasters start getting their level 5+ spells (which are a phase change in what they can do).
Meanwhile weapon based PCs "whiteroom" scaling is different, with a power bump at 5, and a flattening off at level 10+. With spellcasters running into DC walls at the same time that weapon users power curve flattens out, it could produce balance.
But I haven't done any math to prove that, nor evidence that even if it did happen it was intentional.
Second, for attack stats, increasing your attack stat gives you higher accuracy. While granting save proficiency doesn't. A monster that misses all of the time is boring; so deciding between +5 strength and +2 strength +3 proficiency, going with +5 strength works.
Save proficiencies (and skills) makes the stat block very slightly more complex. You get more bang for the complexity buck if you drop it all things being equal; especially with low modifiers. A +2 bonus has less information:math than a +6 bonus does, so adding save proficiencies (or skill proficiency) has better bang:buck at higher CRs.
...
There may be deeper reasons. For example, lagging of save proficiencies from CR 1-8 would result in spellcasters gaining in power-per-action. If then save proficiencies became more common from CR 9-30, this happens around the same time that spellcasters start getting their level 5+ spells (which are a phase change in what they can do).
Meanwhile weapon based PCs "whiteroom" scaling is different, with a power bump at 5, and a flattening off at level 10+. With spellcasters running into DC walls at the same time that weapon users power curve flattens out, it could produce balance.
But I haven't done any math to prove that, nor evidence that even if it did happen it was intentional.
el-remmen
Moderator Emeritus
That's perfectly legal in Colorado.
Note that, under the DMG guidelines, an extra save proficiency is worth like 1/5 of a CR or so. Magic Resistance is worth like 1/2 of a CR.
So adding them on the fly on anything that isn't a mass foe isn't going to budge the encounter difficulty much, by the rules. And the rules are more like guidelines.
In comparison, +2 to your primary attack stat (so +1 modifier on attacks and saves) is worth about +1/4 of a CR.
So adding them on the fly on anything that isn't a mass foe isn't going to budge the encounter difficulty much, by the rules. And the rules are more like guidelines.
In comparison, +2 to your primary attack stat (so +1 modifier on attacks and saves) is worth about +1/4 of a CR.
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Flamestrike
Legend
Because pretty much all spells have an extra save to shake the effects every single round, and with bounded accuracy it means they'll be affected for a round (two saves) or two (three saves) at most even without saving throw proficiency.
Plus it sucks to cast a spell and have it do nothing.
And there are always more monsters.
Plus it sucks to cast a spell and have it do nothing.
And there are always more monsters.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
With the house-rules we are using at present, all monsters get save proficiency in all saves (but so do PCs) in balance to monsters having half the HP. (FWIW, they also get a +4 AC bump).
Monsters which actually have saves listed in their stat block now get advantage on those saves.
It works for us.
shrug
Monsters which actually have saves listed in their stat block now get advantage on those saves.
It works for us.
shrug
