D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Maxperson]

So, rustic people whose lore focus isn’t warfare and such aren’t your jam.

The thing is, in 5e as written you can make a serious, violent, war-mongering Halfling Fighter who likes to disembowel his enemies while they are dead or alive. Adventurers are specifically called out as often deviating from their racial lore to a great degree.

Nothing limits them to being rustic and peaceful.

 

[Minigiant]

The thing is, in 5e as written you can make a serious, violent, war-mongering Halfling Fighter who likes to disembowel his enemies while they are dead or alive. Adventurers are specifically called out as often deviating from their racial lore to a great degree.

Nothing limits them to being rustic and peaceful.

Adventurers can deviate from racial lore.They don't have too.
The issue is when you go so hard on a single trope that you don't inspire people to break the mold over just choosing another race.

The issue is halflings are more or less typecasted and the stereotypes of the uncommon races are more popular now. If someone wants to make a small murderous fighter, they'll go Goblin if the DM allows.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

not as popular as other iconic races

That’s a different goalpost.

Didn't say they weren't.
I said they are pigeonholed due to so much removed from the race and so little put back it.

Didn't say it was.
I said they are pigeonholed due to so much removed from the race and so little put back it.

What was removed?

Data from D&DBeyond stating that they are not in the top 4 played and only really play as rogue and sometimes bard.
My guess folk hero rogue.
They got passed by Half Orc. Half Orcs!

I mean, it’s half-orcs. They’re super popular. But Halflings are still top ten, which means they’re very popular.

 

[Maxperson]

Adventurers can deviate from racial lore.They don't have too.
The issue is when you go so hard on a single trope that you don't inspire people to break the mold over just choosing another race.

The issue is halflings are more or less typecasted and the stereotypes of the uncommon races are more popular now. If someone wants to make a small murderous fighter, they'll go Goblin if the DM allows.

Maybe it's just me, but I've never, ever felt tied to the lore when I make a character. I sometimes stick to it, sometimes change it a bit, and sometimes toss it out the nearest 20 story window and watch it impact the ground.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Maybe the title of this thread should be changed from "why do we have halflings and gnomes" to "Why do halflings suck?" That would fit the current line of discussion much better than the current one.

Halflings are treated different from every other race in the game. Even the "weird" ones, like Locathah, Grung, Aarakocra, Tortles, and Kenku. Every other race gets in depth description about their place in the world and how they survive. Locathah use weapons and pets, Grung use their poison and design their bases to keep out enemies, Aarakocra fly away, use weapons, summon air elementals, and live atop cliffs, Tortles wander around and protect their eggs in big communal settlements, Kenku hide in urban areas and do light banditry work.

However, Halflings get none of that. They don't even have the Tolkien explanation for how they live, Gnomes get the whole "small burrows under ground" thing. Halflings in the core game are more like a walking meme, the coalescence of every hobbit thief/bard stereotype in existence, refusing to satisfyingly answer the most major questions that their existence raises.

How do their villages protect themselves? IDK, they figure out to hide them all, I guess.
Why don't they want riches, land, or conquest? Because reasons.
Why are they lucky? A god did it. What about in other worlds, where there aren't definitive gods (Eberron, Dark Sun, etc)? IDK, you figure it out.
Why are they brave? Because reasons.
I could go on.

Halflings are underdeveloped and are lazy meme characters. I don't hate them, I honestly love Exandria's Lotusden Halflings, and the Halflings of Eberron and Dark Sun, the "core" ones are just uninspiring and lazily designed. Even their name is lazy, just ripped from Tolkien in a way that they couldn't be sued over.

Can we please stop with everyone saying that if we think halflings are lazily made that we hate Tolkien or D&D or whatever other nonsense people are professing?

 

[Maxperson]

However, Halflings get none of that. They don't even have the Tolkien explanation for how they live, Gnomes get the whole "small burrows under ground" thing. Halflings in the core game are more like a walking meme, the coalescence of every hobbit thief/bard stereotype in existence, refusing to satisfyingly answer the most major questions that their existence raises.

The lore tells us that they live in various ways. Some live in villages with small houses and others live in hillside burrows, and yet others in cities in neighborhoods.

How do their villages protect themselves? IDK, they figure out to hide them all, I guess.

The lore answers this question.

Why don't they want riches, land, or conquest? Because reasons.

Reasons given in the lore, yes.

Why are they lucky? A god did it. What about in other worlds, where there aren't definitive gods (Eberron, Dark Sun, etc)? IDK, you figure it out.

Why would setting specific changes be in the core lore? It's rather silly to expect the core lore to apply to other settings. You want to know why they are lucky in those settings, read that setting lore. If it's not there, it's a setting deficiency, not a racial lore deficiency.

Why are they brave? Because reasons.

This one you got. They really don't explain it.

I could go on.

I'm sure you can, but all that you could come up with would be more subjective reasons why you dislike Halfling lore and not one objective reason why they suck as a race.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

not as popular as other iconic races

Not as popular with you. Which is fine, you can like whatever you like. But you are simply not is a position to tell people how popular things are in their games.

I see more player character halflings than elves and dwarves combined in the games I play in.

Halfling characters occur frequently in WotC adventures. I've already pointed out that there are more halflings than elves in Rime of the Frostmaiden.

Halfling characters are common and significant in D&D novels: e.g. Regis, Pawldo, Tasslehoff Burrfoot (not strictly a halfling, but filling the same niche).

 

[Minigiant]

That’s a different goalpost.

That was m original goalpost. That halflings are not treatedl ike elves and dwarves.

What was removed?

This again.
Interest is magic or martial life. Royalty and noblity. Interest in wealth, power, or politics. No magic items. etc etc.

Basically everything but rustic homelife, love of friends and family, and wonderlust for the outside is specifically removed from halflings.

I mean, it’s half-orcs. They’re super popular. But Halflings are still top ten, which means they’re very popular.

There are only 12 few races. Halflings are in the bottom half. And not at the top of the bottom half.

If VGTM races were free, halflings might be in the bottom 25%. Their number might be inflated because of DMs who say PHB only or Common races only.

Maybe it's just me, but I've never, ever felt tied to the lore when I make a character. I sometimes stick to it, sometimes change it a bit, and sometimes toss it out the nearest 20 story window and watch it impact the ground.

That's likely why you don't see the issue. Bcause you never analyze the lore and speculated how other might see it.

Not as popular with you. Which is fine, you can like whatever you like. But you are simply not is a position to tell people how popular things are in their games.

It's not just me.

Halflings aren't a top race anymore. It's iconic because we say so but no one is seriously playing them unless the DM is restricting races. The race is running on nostaglia fumes and too few are bothered by that.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's not just me.

Halflings aren't a top race anymore. It's iconic because we say so but no one is seriously playing them unless the DM is restricting races. The race is running on nostaglia fumes and too few are bothered by that.

Now you are just talking out of your backside. You don't know what other people are playing and what other people like. I've just told you that halflings are more popular than elves and dwarves in our games, yet you persist in making these verifiably false claims. Fake news is fake.

 

[Minigiant]

Now you are just talking out of your backside. You don't know what other people are playing and what other people like. I've just told you that halflings are more popular than elves and dwarves in our games, yet you persist in making these verifiably false claims. Fake news is fake.

I'm using D&DBeyond numbers on popular races.
Halflings aren't high among the free races.