Why do we need thieves??

[Thomas Shey]

There's a reason why Thieves/Rogues are included in just about every fantasy game (table or video) ever made and why they are all modeled after the D&D concept of: Fighter strong, slow, focused, and tanky; Thief fast, deadly, skillful, and fragile.

This seems a pretty big overstatement in the tabletop field, given I can name a fair number where the lines between those are thoroughly blurred.

 

[billd91]

I prefer a mix, where you both have skills for broad areas of gradual competency and something like feats/edges/perks/advantages for binary things. Some skill-based systems try a little too hard to make everything a skill. The example that comes to mind is Martial Arts in Call of Cthulhu, where you both have distinct skills for Fist and Kick, as well as a separate skill for Martial Arts, and if your attack roll is below both your Fist/Kick skill and your Martial Arts skill, you deal double damage. In a system with a more robust advantage system, martial arts would instead be a binary thing that you either have or you don't.

(And yes, I'm aware that Call isn't a system built around combat so wonky handling of Martial Arts isn't that big of an issue, but it was the first example that came to mind).

FYI, removing martial arts as a separate skill and folding all unarmed combat (including smallish/simple weapons like knives and clubs) into the more general Brawling was one of 7th edition's improvements.

But on the topic of Call of Cthulhu, one of the aspects I always enjoyed was the game being skill based but with skill point allocation channeled by character archetype/profession.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I prefer a mix, where you both have skills for broad areas of gradual competency and something like feats/edges/perks/advantages for binary things. Some skill-based systems try a little too hard to make everything a skill. The example that comes to mind is Martial Arts in Call of Cthulhu, where you both have distinct skills for Fist and Kick, as well as a separate skill for Martial Arts, and if your attack roll is below both your Fist/Kick skill and your Martial Arts skill, you deal double damage. In a system with a more robust advantage system, martial arts would instead be a binary thing that you either have or you don't.

I haven't seen an edition of CoC in many years, but it probably is suffering here from the fact BRP predates the idea of talents and the like, so it tends to want to force anything that isn't an attribute into a skill.

(And yes, I'm aware that Call isn't a system built around combat so wonky handling of Martial Arts isn't that big of an issue, but it was the first example that came to mind).

It occurs in other areas in the BRP family. Try to build someone in a number of that family where someone specifically has eidetic memory, for example.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Though I have to say "or technology" in that sentence comes across as a bit odd, as in a modern game the distinction between that and trade skills can be pretty hard to tease out (vehicles too, far as that goes).

Vehicles are a grey area, but in science fiction games tech is often used to substitute for things magic would do in a fantasy game. That's what I'm talking about.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Given the amount of TTRPG's that don't have thieves, I'd say we don't need them.
Even DnD relegated thieves to a sub-class.

they are a whole class in DnD, you just have to be slightly less pedantic about the name they're being referred to as.