D&D General Why does D&D still have 16th to 20th level?

[FrogReaver]

I would be interested in seeing D&D Beyond Data on the Max level a character achieved before retiring. As all we have right now as far as I can tell is snapshot data of characters levels at a single moment in time.

 

[Malmuria]

It would be MUCH more costly to do that. It's more cost effective to put it in one book and add races and such later in other books like they've been doing.

The point is, if it is true that most groups don't use the 11-20 material, then it is a waste of space including it in the PHB. For example, groups who play official modules and start a new campaign when those are over aren't really using a lot of the 10+ or 12+ material. It would be better to focus the phb around a level 1-10 or 1-12 experience (however you want to cut it up). Those players and dms who do want high levels could, in turn, probably use a book focused on gameplay at those levels, including options for customization.

Granted, maybe plenty of groups get past level 12 and want all that info in one place.

 

[Maxperson]

I’m not guessing, I’m believing the data that we do have.

You have no data to support that guess. There's nothing in the video explaining those numbers to support it.

Haven’t they said elsewhere they filter out characters that aren’t regularly updated when analyzing D&D Beyond data?

Not that I've heard.

Sure. The question then is if people who don’t play online are a statistically significant portion of the player base (I would guess yes, though probably still a minority), and if so, are their habits different than people who do play online, in terms of what levels they typically play at (I would guess no.

It's not even possible that more people play online than in person. Not yet. Perhaps in 5-10 years if the online platforms improve significantly, but right now, no.

It would be really interesting to see if this was the case or not!

It's pretty much guaranteed to be the case, but I doubt they will show us those particular numbers, as they do not serve their narrative.

 

[Malmuria]

It's not even possible that more people play online than in person. Not yet. Perhaps in 5-10 years if the online platforms improve significantly, but right now, no.

It's pretty much guaranteed to be the case, but I doubt they will show us those particular numbers, as they do not serve their narrative.

I think a lot of people use dnd beyond even when playing in person.

 

[FrogReaver]

Faulty is faulty. They aren't even representative of the average D&D player to begin with. I can dispute their numbers on nothing more than that. Their numbers are useless for determining how D&D players as a whole play the game.

Until we know more about how those numbers were arrived at I think I'm in agreement.

I've said before I think they are a snapshot in time. Which has it's own issues. But what if it's not even a snapshot. What if it's a list of every character/level combination in the game over all of 2019 (or at least the ones deemed 'active' at that moment in time for each combination). That also would significantly inflate the number of low level characters compared to high level ones.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

A value of having more levels is that it gives you more opportunities to modify / customize / advance your character.

 

[ph0rk]

Sure. I don’t think this is a point in favor of high level campaigns being more common than the D&D Beyond data suggests though.

D&D was played for decades before dndbeyond came along.

The more conservative position is that dndbeyond is not representative of the player base, rather than that it is.

 

[FrogReaver]

It only shows those who like to play online, and online play is much more limited and less enjoyable than in person play, so campaigns are likely to die off sooner or convert to in person play where possible.

I think online play can help keep some groups together - essentially helping them reach higher level. I think some can find it just as enjoyable (it offers different incentives.

I'm with you that random groups of strangers playing together online likely doesn't make it to high level, but IMO it's unlikely that's the primary user base of D&D Beyond either.

 

[imagineGod]

The third party Trudvang Adventures 5e made the decision to stop at level 10 for their world is lower magic than standard Dungeons and Dragons.

 

[Sithlord]

I prefer the play in levels 16-20 and beyond. I really don’t Ike playing below 5th very much anymore. Good group and DM can change that. I firmly believe that if you don’t over rely on prepublished adventures that stories will Just unfold naturally well above 20th level. Just my opinion. The more you homebrew settings and adventures the easier it is. Or just use a published setting very loosely with an open mind.