Why does Ice Storm suck?

[Baumi]

@hammymchamham:

I checked the SRD but I do not find a reason why it wouldn't hurt the caster if he centerd the spell on himself...??

 

[IceBear]

I think hammy misread your question as why take IceBurst over Fireball, instead of the other way around (assuming Ice Burst doesn't do damage to the central point of the spell, I am not familar with that spell).

IceBear

 

[der_kluge]

Energy admixture - I don't even know what it does, and as a DM, I probably wouldn't allow it anyway, since much of what is in T&B is completely wacked.

Once upon a time, the PHB was all that we had, so ignoring the addition of munchkin feats out of the splat books, Ice Storm sucks.

The only metamagic feat that affects it is maximize, which just ensures that you do 30 points of damage every time. But good lord, that increases it by 3 levels! Folks, if you're casting 7th level ice storms, I've got some swamp land in Florida to sell you.

And everyone keeps talking about evasion this, and evasion that. When was the last time you cast an AE spell on a group of rogues, for crying out loud? Actually, when was the last time you cast an AE spell on *anything* after about 5th level? I mean, most DMs stop throwing orcs, kobolds and goblins at parties after about 5th level. Making both fireball and ice storm less useful.

But the evasion argument is pretty weak, IMHO.

I'm going to HR (house rule) Ice Storm IMC, to be 8d6 (4d6 cold/4d6 impact). That is a little more reasonable. I might even give it a fort save or be dazed for one round. No save on damage.

 

[IceBear]

Well, not throwing orcs, goblins or kobolds after a party reaches 5th level (or not throwing powerful monsters at low level characters) can be a sign of DM metagaming.

Yes, yes a DM has to balance the encounters, but I will still throw in an encounter that's above or below the party level from time to time for consistency and realism. I hate in games that travelling through the Black Hills at level 3 means you see a lot of orcs but go through them at level 10 and there's not an orc to be seen

IceBear

 

[Wippit Guud]

Miond you, if a party went through the black hills at 3, and killed a lot of orcs, when they go back through at 10 and look a hell of a lot more powerful... most orcs would hide.

 

[IceBear]

Yes, yes you can rationalize it away but that's what it is rationalism. When it occurs ALL the time it impacts the realism of your world. It's one thing to go into the Black Hills and wipe out all the orcs and another to just travel through it one the way to a ruined dungeon and encounter several orcish hunting parties. If none of them escape and you haven't returned to the area in 7 levels, I don't see why running into a couple of orcs at level 10 wouldn't happen. Sure, the party will cut through them but they won't get an XP and they might get to use some skills and feats that they wouldn't normally get to use (Great cleave anyone?)

Anyway, sorry to get off topic

IceBear

 

[hammymchamham]

@hammymchamham:

I checked the SRD but I do not find a reason why it wouldn't hurt the caster if he centerd the spell on himself...??

Its in the spell

Fireball
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes
A fireball spell is a burst of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to all creatures within the area. (SNIP)

If its centred on the caster, he is in the area. If its centred 5 feet in front of him, he is in the area.

Ice Burst isn't in the SRD, and me without my T&B am unable to look it up, but I am sure Ice Burst doesn't harm the caster.

 

[hammymchamham]

Yes, yes you can rationalize it away but that's what it is rationalism. When it occurs ALL the time it impacts the realism of your world. It's one thing to go into the Black Hills and wipe out all the orcs and another to just travel through it one the way to a ruined dungeon and encounter several orcish hunting parties. If none of them escape and you haven't returned to the area in 7 levels, I don't see why running into a couple of orcs at level 10 wouldn't happen. Sure, the party will cut through them but they won't get an XP and they might get to use some skills and feats that they wouldn't normally get to use (Great cleave anyone?)

Anyway, sorry to get off topic

IceBear

And who's to say some of those Orc's don't have levels? Just a couple Orcs with levels near the PC's can turn that encounter into a fun encounter.

 

[IceBear]

And who's to say some of those Orc's don't have levels? Just a couple Orcs with levels near the PC's can turn that encounter into a fun encounter.

Yup, do that too. The first time a fighter hit a kobold for 16 points of damage that was described as the kobold blocking most of the blow except for a little gash on its arm was worth it just for the looks on the players' faces

IceBear

 

[Oni]

Ice burst would affect the caster.

fireball = long range
ice burst = medium range

fireball = 20 ft radius spread
ice burst = 30ft radius burst

fireball at 10th casterlevel = 10d6 fire damage
ice burst at 10th casterlevel = 10d4 cold damage +10 blunt damage