Why does Undead=Evil

[Incenjucar]

The question can't be answered. Undead !=Evil.

Ghosts, by ratio, are more often good than Halflings are. 'Nuff said. End of story. Period. Deal.

 

[Fieari]

Undead themselves appear to be nuetral according to the MM, but the CREATION of Undead is clearly marked as evil, by the RAW.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Removed

 

[Scion]

Wow! Guess devils and demons arn't evil either- just misunderstood. I mean someone somewhere just arbitrarily made them that right?

Different situation. You are talking about creatures who are the embodyment of evil vs a spell which makes something move around. There is a bit of a difference there.

A close friend of relitive dies, would you mind them walking about doing things, serving tea or wandering the streets looking for something moist to eat. I would not want that of my loved ones, but I guess we're from different sides of the street- Understand what evil is when I see it.

So, if you were from a society where that sort of thing is the norm, you would still see it as evil?

What about a culture, as they do exist, that believes that embalming the dead is the most horrible and evil thing you can possibly do to defile the corpse? Would you still let your relative be embalmed? even though these other people see it as incredibly evil, possibly destroying their soul or denying them their afterlife.

Of course, the d&d universe generally just assumes that when you die your soul passes on to wherever it is going. The body is left behind. Depending on the culture there will be different beliefs and taboos, but these are mainly on the Law/Chaos axis, not the Good/Evil. Another big difference.

Guns, chair, knivies, desks, computers, shaving kits, dice, masking tape, swords, shoe laces, sharpened credit cards, all of it is not evil until it is used in an evil way.

Even if used for evil the item still isnt evil.

Raising the dead to use as an army of slaves (one or a billion of them) is evil, if you can't see that- emm, well, umm, ya, okay never mind I guess you can't.

[Parody]
Animating objects to use as an army of slaves (one or a billion of them) is evil, if you cant see that- emm, well, umm, ya, okay never mind I guess you cant. [/Parody]

It is hard to be a 'slave' if you have no intelligence or will. It is like saying all of the garden sheers in the world are 'slaves'. Even animals have intelligence, and yet they are still treated as property and used as 'slaves'.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Removed

 

[BlackSilver]

One question and 2% of a dollar

This is not the forum to ask, but I do not want to start a thread just to find this out- what is the SRD? It seems to be software or files that have D&D rules- if it is- where can I get it?

Thank you, and sorry for interrupting.

For what it is worth- Talon5 has a sig "evil is what good men won't do," or something like that. I think the sig is very right, thou I dislike arguing points, esp. where there appears to be hostility like there seems to be here.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Removed

 

[Scion]

What is it then? A dark shade of gray? (good = white and evil = black)

Strangely enough, something called 'neutral' exists in d&d. In fact, only things that are very strongly aligned on the various axis are actually not neutral. The majority of things out there are actually neutral.

Undead themselves appear to be nuetral according to the MM

My srd says that skeletons are evil. Seems odd for something that cannot make decissions has an alignment (note, not just radiating evil or whatever. It isnt that they simply have evil stuck on them like so much paint, they actually have an 'alignment'. an object can radiate a good/evil or law/chaos, but these guys actually 'are' evil. Something that cannot make choices 'is' evil. something is wrong with that. Radiate evil because it it infused with it, fine, but have an alignment of evil with no mind? nah, nonsensical).

You are correct in noting that animated objects are aware of language, and aware of concepts complex enough to perform mundane tasks. The SRD doesn't tell us where the animated objects gain this motive intelligence from (and yes, I know they have no Int in the game term sense of things), but one might reason that they are animated by elemental spirits, as are golems.

And one also might reason that it is simply magic doing the animated and interpretting. Therefore nothing is bound, since nothing is described as being bound this would make more sense.

The newly created undead does not just respond to orders in languages it used to know, it accepts all commands (this is completely different than speak with dead).

I wasn't aware that objects gained a saving throw against the read object power.

This matters how? I said, 'like'. After all, it only grants the semblance of life, not real life. It is just a proxy, and not a very good one.

In any event, there is one significant piece of evidence which I am using in order to draw conclusions: casting animate dead is an evil act.

So, to the question of, 'why does undead = evil' you are saying, 'because the spell is evil'. Not helpful. Many of the conclusions you are drawing simply do not follow logically however, especially the connections between speak with dead and animate dead. It falls apart after just a simple inspection (there is no mention of any soul type being used in the animate dead, the soul imprint depends on knowledge of the former body but animate does not. It shares much more in common with animated object than anything else).

It might be evil because of taboos (which would make it more chaotic than evil), it might be evil because the designers just felt it was more flavorful that way :shrugs:: it isnt the first time that a bad houserule made it into the core), it might be because only evil gods allow it (but then they allow other things which are not evil, so this isnt very convincing).

All in all, your first premise just does not work. So everything following it falls into question.

That is a line of reasoning that I, and others, have answered ad infinitum ad nauseum.

Of course, it keeps being answered poorly. Mainly with things like, 'but fire can be used to cook food!'. Well, waves of exhaustion can help someone sleep. There we are, sleeping pills can help people.

Saying that fire can be used for purposes other than evil says nothing. Negative energy can be used for things other than evil as well.

Rule 0 is there for a reason.

Oberoni fallicy.

 

[Talon5]

Well Scion- wow, its amazing to see someone that can't see the line between good and evil- nope its all neutral. Good luck with that view. The only thing you have convenced me of is that you'll make a good defense lawyer one day.

You must treat your animals poorly.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Removed