Is there any actual statement from the designers about this? It seems very common to me for people to post something in the forum asking about some feature that they would like to see in 4E to be told something like "that's not how you play DnD anymore" by someone who otherwise doesn't actually support it with a statement from anything official. I never actually see this substantiated - maybe I need to subscribe to some website or something. How do we know that traps and summoned monsters (the kinds of rituals alluded to in the Monster Manual) aren't intended for some future design?
Why doesn't 4th ed have rituals for making "traps"?
- Thread starter Silverblade The Ench
- Start date
Is there any actual statement from the designers about this? It seems very common to me for people to post something in the forum asking about some feature that they would like to see in 4E to be told something like "that's not how you play DnD anymore" by someone who otherwise doesn't actually support it with a statement from anything official. I never actually see this substantiated - maybe I need to subscribe to some website or something. How do we know that traps and summoned monsters (the kinds of rituals alluded to in the Monster Manual) aren't intended for some future design?
I think they are only *harder* to balance. If it's next to impossible, IMO this is because 4E has done virtually nothing to educate DMs on how to run any sort of game other than one based on the lowest common denominator. I think this is about how much DMs expect to be able to micro-manage the resource use and actions of their players. Where do you draw the line? Are you going to stop people's PCs from moving a rock because it throws off some terrain calculation for an encounter? Some magical force prevents a PC from digging a hole in the ground? My hope is that trap creation and summoned monsters and so on will be addressed in later supplement when the designers have time to work out reasonable parameters for how they should work.
As mentioned, the PHB2 has Wyvern Watch and Snare that immobilize. I don't think the OP was referring to that, was he?
Hey OP, what WERE you talking about specifically
Silverblade The Ench
First Post
I'm talking about using Rituals to create a magical trap of whatever type 
Ok, imagine this:
Arcane ritual, "Flagstone Flip" on casting, it affects a stonework floor, 1 square.
Anyone who goes over that square, triggers it, who isn't attuned/exluded from triggering it.
Attck = Int vs Reflex
1d6+int modifier damage, & knocked prone.
Lasts until triggered.
Also, it can be made permanent by use of a focus item, or the like, and resets every 10 minutes.
Now, why's that good?
a) nice defence that BOTH enemies and the party can use.
b) You can use it against enemies...cast it once or several times in an area, lure the enemy into it, etc.
c) It's logical (within D&D). If an NPC can have a trap the NPC should too.
Preparing the battleground is a good idea, as old Sun Tzu I'm sure would note
Having magical traps created by rituals solves also the "How the HELL did he have all these traps if he's a wizard, not a mechanical genius?" problems, also, you can have more than the usual "10' x 10' pit trap", or a pit trap that WON'T drop you in it by mistake!
See that's one thing I always, always have in my games, unless the NPC is a lunatic:
he must have a method of avoiding the trap!
who the hell wants to go through a room chocked full of death traps that some gnome with a maniacal bent, has made, eh?
Would YOU trust it? Hell no!! Odds are too high it'd trigger by accident and you'd become a shiskebab with a steel-bladed hedgehog rammed up umentionable places !
.
That's why you'd either have to use magical traps, or "left/right choice" design (by that I mean, say having 2 corridors parallel, one full of traps, other safe, intruders have to make a choice, but you know which is completely safe)
I like making traps that make SENSE, ya know?
Who the hell would put a poison gas trap in their wife's jewel box, eh?! That's just asking for divorce, lol
Alarm traps, ones that knock folk out, paralyze them (Wyvern Watch), trip them, and so on are usually much better where there's risk of setting it off accidentally.
Additionally, a book full of magicial trap rituals = great treasure horde item!!
You can also imagine a hunt/chase, where the hunted takes time to "cast" some traps to slow down or ambush the pursuers.
You lose time, but it maybe worth it, and have a breather while you do so.
Ok, imagine this:
Arcane ritual, "Flagstone Flip" on casting, it affects a stonework floor, 1 square.
Anyone who goes over that square, triggers it, who isn't attuned/exluded from triggering it.
Attck = Int vs Reflex
1d6+int modifier damage, & knocked prone.
Lasts until triggered.
Also, it can be made permanent by use of a focus item, or the like, and resets every 10 minutes.
Now, why's that good?
a) nice defence that BOTH enemies and the party can use.
b) You can use it against enemies...cast it once or several times in an area, lure the enemy into it, etc.
c) It's logical (within D&D). If an NPC can have a trap the NPC should too.
Preparing the battleground is a good idea, as old Sun Tzu I'm sure would note
Having magical traps created by rituals solves also the "How the HELL did he have all these traps if he's a wizard, not a mechanical genius?" problems, also, you can have more than the usual "10' x 10' pit trap", or a pit trap that WON'T drop you in it by mistake!
See that's one thing I always, always have in my games, unless the NPC is a lunatic:
he must have a method of avoiding the trap!
who the hell wants to go through a room chocked full of death traps that some gnome with a maniacal bent, has made, eh?
Would YOU trust it? Hell no!! Odds are too high it'd trigger by accident and you'd become a shiskebab with a steel-bladed hedgehog rammed up umentionable places !
.That's why you'd either have to use magical traps, or "left/right choice" design (by that I mean, say having 2 corridors parallel, one full of traps, other safe, intruders have to make a choice, but you know which is completely safe)
I like making traps that make SENSE, ya know?
Who the hell would put a poison gas trap in their wife's jewel box, eh?! That's just asking for divorce, lol
Alarm traps, ones that knock folk out, paralyze them (Wyvern Watch), trip them, and so on are usually much better where there's risk of setting it off accidentally.
Additionally, a book full of magicial trap rituals = great treasure horde item!!
You can also imagine a hunt/chase, where the hunted takes time to "cast" some traps to slow down or ambush the pursuers.
You lose time, but it maybe worth it, and have a breather while you do so.
I imagine you could balance rituals for creating magical traps by referring to the rules for 1-shot alchemical items. I don't see a lot of difference between paying 20 gold for a dose of alchemist's fire that does 1d6 fire damage in a burst 1 and paying 20 gold in components for a magic trap that does 1d6 fire damage in a burst 1.
Silverblade The Ench
First Post
Exactly!
you could have the ritual increasing in power, but also in PRICE, similar to the alchemical items, to keep it balanced and challenging.
Crothian
First Post
My point is that NPCs and PCs are now very different. Just look at the rules for which they are created. What one groups gets to do does not mean the other group also can do nor should it. I've seen no evidence in the books that would make one think otherwise.
Scribble
First Post
I don't think rituals for magic traps would harm things. (So long as the rituals were balanced.)
It would be akin to those new orb magic items that are supposed to be in AV 2 that move al combatants into a predetermined battlefield.
Traps aren't inherently "against" the PCs. Most of the traps / hazzards seem like they're relatively neutral, and can be used by either side to their benefit. It's just that most of the traps are DM placed, and therefore more then likely the monsters/npcs have control over them from the start.
A trap ritual would just give the PCs a way to make one area a little more in their favor. Nothing, however, forces the monsters to meet the PCs in that area. If the PCs are smart enough/good enough to get the monsters to do so, then so be it. They deserve the added advantage.
It would be akin to those new orb magic items that are supposed to be in AV 2 that move al combatants into a predetermined battlefield.
Traps aren't inherently "against" the PCs. Most of the traps / hazzards seem like they're relatively neutral, and can be used by either side to their benefit. It's just that most of the traps are DM placed, and therefore more then likely the monsters/npcs have control over them from the start.
A trap ritual would just give the PCs a way to make one area a little more in their favor. Nothing, however, forces the monsters to meet the PCs in that area. If the PCs are smart enough/good enough to get the monsters to do so, then so be it. They deserve the added advantage.
CapnZapp
Legend
While basing rituals on the effects of alchemical items seems like a good and sound idea; for the love of god, don't pretend that those Sequestered Orbs are anything close to balanced.
Scribble
First Post
While basing rituals on the effects of alchemical items seems like a good and sound idea; for the love of god, don't pretend that those Sequestered Orbs are anything close to balanced.
I haven't actually used one in play yet. Do they really mess things up?
Really I just meant that it would allow crafty PCs a little more control over the battlefield. Not that they would = the same thing.
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