D&D 5E Why don't Druids get charm animals and plants as a class ability?

[iserith]

Playing LMoP and the first cave has wolves. We have a Druid in the party who can't make friends without a spell? But a nature cleric could? Huh? I know the adventure lets anyone make friends by offering a snack but this is just one instance. I would think Druids could do this multiple times per especially on low CR animals.

I suggest just telling the DM what you hope to accomplish and how you set about accomplishing it in fictional terms, then let him or her adjudicate. If I felt your efforts had an uncertain outcome, I'd ask for a Wisdom check and we'll see how it turns out. You might be able to apply a proficiency bonus for Animal Handling to that ability check or even spend your Inspiration to give yourself an edge.

In short, I don't believe a class feature is necessary to do what you want to do. It sounds like you want a button to push to make something happen.

 

[Reflected_Shadows]

For the same reason that Paladins can't get a special horse without casting a spell, and Rangers can't shoot lots of arrows without a (fifth level!!) spell. (Okay, *technically* you can shoot lots of arrows with a second-level spell--conjure barrage--but swift quiver is literally a fifth-level spell, with concentration, that lets you fire two extra shots as a bonus action. So apparently shooting four arrows a round for two combats a day is a fifth-level spell ability!)

That is: 5e "solved" the issue of some classes having lots of class features by making a whole bunch of them into spells. Paladin, Ranger, and Druid being the key examples.

Adding to this, many of what you used to call freebies that you just get, are now "choices" you have to make. You have to choose to have/prepare the spell and not a different one. You have to choose to use that spell instead of a different spell. Much better than just having class features that give you everything.

 

[Xvartslayer]

So instead we end up with an ever-growing pile of totally-not-rules corner cases adjudicated consistently across a variety of contexts?

I don't know what this means.

 

[Xvartslayer]

Wait...so a class ability that grants Advantage is a fussy little modifier, but a cantrip that does the same thing is not?

/confused

Not so confusing really. Druidcraft is a nice place to stick "Druid Stuff."

I do not want a Wizard class ability: "You may blow impressive smoke rings a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier once per long rest." Wizardy, Clericy and Druidy actions are, in my opinion, best covered in a general sense by the relevant cantrips.

 

[GX.Sigma]

What is a "cleric of nature" but a druid anyway?

Cleric of nature: Magical priest of a nature god

Druid: Member of a specific ancient real-world religion that Gary thought was a good idea to include in Greyhawk for some reason

 

[Guest 6801328]

Not so confusing really. Druidcraft is a nice place to stick "Druid Stuff."

I do not want a Wizard class ability: "You may blow impressive smoke rings a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier once per long rest." Wizardy, Clericy and Druidy actions are, in my opinion, best covered in a general sense by the relevant cantrips.

Ah, I see. You like to see things organized in a certain way. That makes sense. But it's not really the difference between something being a "fussy little modifier" or not. It's just a matter of where you find it.

Also, this feature isn't anything like the current items listed in Druidcraft, so sticking it in would be an odd fit. (A Frankantrip, perhaps?) It's so much like Friends (more limited targets, but without the aftereffects) that it pretty clearly* would need to be a cantrip of its own. And then we've got more competition for a pretty tight cantrip budget.

No, I think I prefer it as a class ability. Compared to martial classes or fractional casters, casters already have very, very few class abilities in their chart. I could see tucking this into level 3 quite nicely.

*YMMV

 

[fromthe1980s]

Charm plants and animals is a _class ability_ for nature domain clerics. I'm arguing that the developers should have given it to Druids instead or in addition, although for Druids it ought to level up something akin to destroy undead for clerics. It is not equivalent to animal handling skill or Druidcraft cantrip.

If I were a developer, I'd also consider something like "call animal helpers" that improves with levels but not overpowered. Not to fight so much as add flavor. Perhaps at the first few levels they could deliver messages, investigate, or take the help action at best.

Such abilities would perhaps belong in a new circle to disturb the class as written the least.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Also, this feature isn't anything like the current items listed in Druidcraft, so sticking it in would be an odd fit. (A Frankantrip, perhaps?) It's so much like Friends (more limited targets, but without the aftereffects) that it pretty clearly* would need to be a cantrip of its own. And then we've got more competition for a pretty tight cantrip budget.

Depending upon what it does, its going to be at least as powerful as a level 1 spell, not a cantrip. Potentially more if it affects more targets than the method of charming animals that the Druid currently has access to.

No, I think I prefer it as a class ability. Compared to martial classes or fractional casters, casters already have very, very few class abilities in their chart. I could see tucking this into level 3 quite nicely.

That is because their spell progression is their main class ability, and it improves improves every level for a full caster.

Charm plants and animals is a _class ability_ for nature domain clerics. I'm arguing that the developers should have given it to Druids instead or in addition, although for Druids it ought to level up something akin to destroy undead for clerics. It is not equivalent to animal handling skill or Druidcraft cantrip.

Its more equivalent to the Animal Friendship spell: that is already a potential class feature of a Druid from level 1.

If I were a developer, I'd also consider something like "call animal helpers" that improves with levels but not overpowered. Not to fight so much as add flavor. Perhaps at the first few levels they could deliver messages, investigate, or take the help action at best.

If you want this to be automatic, it sounds a lot like the Find Familiar spell. If you don't want to expend a feat on that, you could ask your DM nicely to make it a Druid spell.

Otherwise you could simply use your existing abilities and cast Speak with Animals offering a suitable reward to ask animals perform a task for you.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I don't know what this means.

I'm saying that you are calling a thing a "corner case," but giving it a clear, consistent answer, which seems like it should apply to basically any campaign in which a particular option (Druids) is available. You're talking about something that seems pretty clearly a house rule. Insisting that it is a "corner case" when it's just a house rule of narrow application seems to weaken the meanings of both terms.

Adding to this, many of what you used to call freebies that you just get, are now "choices" you have to make. You have to choose to have/prepare the spell and not a different one. You have to choose to use that spell instead of a different spell. Much better than just having class features that give you everything.

Personally, I consider it substantially worse. It makes illusory choices much of the time, constraining potential rather than broadening it. Frex, Eldritch Blast being a cantrip that Warlocks don't have to take, despite being more or less essential for all (non-Blade) Warlocks to keep pace with classes that have "normal" (i.e. long-rest-based) damage spells. Much better, if it's a presumed class feature, to make it an automatic one. Letting people choose to ignore things that are Meant To Be There is the path of trap options.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Depending upon what it does, its going to be at least as powerful as a level 1 spell, not a cantrip. Potentially more if it affects more targets than the method of charming animals that the Druid currently has access to.

Wait...how do you figure? What I was describing....Advantage on Charisma skills vs. animals and sentient plants...is almost identical to Friends, except that it would work on far, far fewer targets, and not have the bad aftereffect. Does that bump it from Cantrip level to 1st Level? I wouldn't think so. It's not a Charm; it just lets you persuade/intimidate/deceive/perform more easily...the effects of that are up to the DM.