D&D General Why Exploration Is the Worst Pillar

[iserith]

Something else: Guidance on the average time it takes to search dungeon chambers based on how they're stocked would be helpful. We know how long it takes to travel down a 30 ft. corridor based on travel speed, but how long does it take to explore a 30 x 40 ft. chamber based on its purpose, state and contents?

I imagine they didn't want to standardize this and just leave it up to the DM to decide if it was important to establish.

For my part, I generally say 10 minutes for a given dungeon exploration task in a 1,000 square foot area - keep watch, loot, search for secret doors, search for traps, pick a lock, etc. This also keeps it in line with many rituals or spell durations. Wandering monster checks are done at 10-minute or 1-hour intervals. Anyone doing something other than keeping watch during that 10 minutes is automatically surprised if a stealthy monster is indicated (but not all monsters are the stealthy sort).

 

[robus]

It's badly organized, yes. It's still really no excuse for not reading it in my view.

I finally went back and read it and after a number of years of running the game and now I was able to grok what it’s offering. It’s still completely ass-backwards. And the fact that it offers no practical way of tracking game world time is shocking, given how so much is geared around specific time intervals.

 

[iserith]

I finally went back and read it and after a number of years of running the game and now I was able to grok what it’s offering. It’s still completely ass-backwards. And the fact that it offers no practical way of tracking game world time is shocking, given how so much is geared around specific time intervals.

Yes, I imagine reading it years after it was published changes nothing about how it is organized.

 

[robus]

Sure, my point is mostly that we don't actually need to look outside the D&D 5e rules to build the framework for exploration we want in our games.

This is what was so enlightening about your adjudication guide, it put context around the basic ability check framework. It made a lightbulb go off in my head at least.

 

[robus]

I feel like the main issue with exploration is that there's no real reward on the player's part unless they like 'challenge' in the form of resource management.

To me the reward is “meaning” the exploration provides much of the “why” the adventure is happening. It is the context within which the combats and social encounters have meaning. Without exploration providing that context (or connective tissue) then the other pillars become meaningless, disconnected challenges. But this also means that exploration should absolutely have XP rewards. Revealing a major clue for example should feel awesome and should have a reward.

 

[mrpopstar]

I imagine they didn't want to standardize this and just leave it up to the DM to decide if it was important to establish.

It's especially important to establish if you're tracking light sources, but I understand why they wouldn't want to standardize it.

For my part, I generally say 10 minutes for a given dungeon exploration task in a 1,000 square foot area - keep watch, loot, search for secret doors, search for traps, pick a lock, etc. This also keeps it in line with many rituals or spell durations. Wandering monster checks are done at 10-minute or 1-hour intervals. Anyone doing something other than keeping watch during that 10 minutes is automatically surprised if a stealthy monster is indicated (but not all monsters are the stealthy sort).

I roll with the 10 min. generalization as well, though I do think about brand new Dungeon Masters and how it would be helpful to be given a ballpark. Especially if using the random dungeon generator tables. Need those ballparks when rolling quick and on the fly!

 

[robus]

The latest WotC survey about M:TG and D&D asked about if I would recommend either. I said I'd recommend D&D but the books look like they are written for people who have played the game before, which was fine for 2014. I also mentioned how poorly laid out the DMG is. It's not a good book on how to actually run D&D.

This is exactly my feeling about the Starter Set too. It’s an intro the 5e rules for experienced players. It’s not great for introducing a bunch of newbs. That first encounter? Wow.

 

[iserith]

It's especially important to establish if you're tracking light sources, but I understand why they wouldn't want to standardize it.


I roll with the 10 min. generalization as well, though I do think about brand new Dungeon Masters and how it would be helpful to be given a ballpark. Especially if using the random dungeon generator tables. Need those ballparks when rolling quick and on the fly!

I wonder if they put tracking light sources and time in the early surveys and found not many people do it so they just didn't bother to include it in the design. I don't even do it for every adventure or campaign, just the ones where I'm trying to put the classic town-to-dungeon delve experience front and center. In a pulp action Eberron game, by contrast, I'm just not going to bother with stuff like that.

 

[robus]

The 5th edition Dungeon Master's Guide is probably the single best Dungeons & Dragons reference of all editions combined. It may not be laid out the best, but its content is exceptional in comparison.

Good to know it’s getting better, but it still has a long way to go. They really need a Dungeon Apprentice’s Guide

 

[robus]

I imagine they didn't want to standardize this and just leave it up to the DM to decide if it was important to establish.

For my part, I generally say 10 minutes for a given dungeon exploration task in a 1,000 square foot area - keep watch, loot, search for secret doors, search for traps, pick a lock, etc. This also keeps it in line with many rituals or spell durations. Wandering monster checks are done at 10-minute or 1-hour intervals. Anyone doing something other than keeping watch during that 10 minutes is automatically surprised if a stealthy monster is indicated (but not all monsters are the stealthy sort).

Yep, the time pool idea works really well with that because it makes the passing time visible to the players and thus the threat of a random encounter larger and larger as time passes. I totally sucked at time keeping in the long campaign I ran, and my game was weaker for it.

The fact the DMG (or any of the expansions) doesn’t offer a system like that yet is surprising.