D&D General Why Exploration Is the Worst Pillar

Aldarc

Legend
It’s possible to get committed to your argument even when everyone else is telling you it doesn’t make sense. It’s the reason the police force shouldn’t be able to impose verdicts on criminals they investigate. They get caught up in their own position and lose perspective, 12 average people make the decision instead - reasonable people.

I don’t think anyone is attacking Ovinomancer personally, just saying in this they have lost perspective with what is reasonable.
IMHO, when one says "no reasonable person would interpret" this in a certain way, particularly where there does seem to be genuine ambiguity over meaning over "lost," that does seem like a veiled personal attack that all but calls someone as "unreasonable." But please don't let me interfere with y'all's mob.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ
Insinuiating that Ovinomancer isn't a reasonable person seems kind of insulting and not cool at all, Azzy.
I'm not insinuating that at all, and mean no offence to Ovinomancer (as it seems like even he wouldn't even rule that way in an actual game, but is instead arguing a point that it is a possible intepretation). The "reasonable person" is a concept that comes from criminal law, and I'm applying it here (since we're rules lawyering). I do offer my apologies if this was taken as an offense.
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
This fails the "reasonable person" test. In the context of the rules as written, no reasonable person would intrepret getting lost as you've presented or use such a tortured argument to argue that a ranger should be able to find an unknown location without actually searching.
Sure. Reasonable people might also conclude that casting spells are farcical. The ranger ability is already supernatural, after all. So now we're splitting hairs over which supernatural ability is reasonable?
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
The ‘unable to find ones way’ is predicated on having an intended way to go to their destination in the first place. @Ovinomancer is ignoring that. Normally when people set out on a journey - hike/drive etc - they know which way they intend to go and they know their destination. Even if it’s to explore what on the other side of that mountain.
Tautological. To know the way I must first know the way.

Let's say I want to go to place X, but I don't know where place X is. I could get maps or ask directions to X. I could strike out blindly in a direction, though. If I do the latter, the descriptive term for my journey in relation to getting to place X would be lost -- even if I'm headed in the right direction. But, if I'm also a ranger, I cannot be lost, so I must therefore, according to your tautology, know the way!

The tautology you propose hasn't been ignored by me at all. It's the core of the argument. Thanks for pointing it out again!
A ranger always knows there they are and won’t accidentally take a wrong turn. It doesn’t mean the pass of Caradhras won’t be blocked, forcing him to take another way and it doesn’t give supernatural directions to locations he hadn’t already planned a route to.
Seems like a wrong turn to take the pass, then, doesn't it?
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
I'm not insinuating that at all, and mean no offence to Ovinomancer (as it seems like even he wouldn't even rule that way in an actual game, but is instead arguing a point that it is a possible intepretation). The "reasonable person" is a concept that comes from criminal law, and I'm applying it here (since we're rules lawyering). I do offer my apologies if this was taken as an offense.
It wasn't.
 

I'll keep saying it as often as I need to. Fighting a monster isn't an exploration challenge. If your solution to the players using exploration spells to overcome exploration challenges is to force them into the combat pillar, then the Exploration pillar is obviously lacking.
I don't get it.
 


turnip_farmer

Adventurer
Tautological. To know the way I must first know the way.

Let's say I want to go to place X, but I don't know where place X is. I could get maps or ask directions to X. I could strike out blindly in a direction, though. If I do the latter, the descriptive term for my journey in relation to getting to place X would be lost -- even if I'm headed in the right direction. But, if I'm also a ranger, I cannot be lost, so I must therefore, according to your tautology, know the way!

The tautology you propose hasn't been ignored by me at all. It's the core of the argument. Thanks for pointing it out again!

Seems like a wrong turn to take the pass, then, doesn't it?
Similarly, I rule that a party always knows where the ranger is as long as they are within their favoured terrain. After all, if we don't know where someone is, we could possibly describe that person as lost. 'Unable to be found' is a dictionary definition of 'lost', after all. Unfortunately this works for enemies, too. Rangers cannot evade pursuit in their favoured terrain.

On the plus side, if they do get caught by enemies in their favoured terrain, they are invincible. Otherwise, the party may have to mourn a lost ranger comrade, which is obviously impossible.

The ability also requires us to nix some character concepts. I had a player describe a ranger who was adventuring because he was unsure what to do with his life. With regret I had to inform him such a backstory was against the rules. The first village where our campaign began counted as his favourite terrain, you see, so he could only play rangers with clear direction in their lives.
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
Similarly, I rule that a party always knows where the ranger is as long as they are within their favoured terrain. After all, if we don't know where someone is, we could possibly describe that person as lost. 'Unable to be found' is a dictionary definition of 'lost', after all. Unfortunately this works for enemies, too. Rangers cannot evade pursuit in their favoured terrain.
Works for me. It's a poorly written ability, all told.
On the plus side, if they do get caught by enemies in their favoured terrain, they are invincible. Otherwise, the party may have to mourn a lost ranger comrade, which is obviously impossible.
Works for me. It's a poorly written ability, all told.
The ability also requires us to nix some character concepts. I had a player describe a ranger who was adventuring because he was unsure what to do with his life. With regret I had to inform him such a backstory was against the rules. The first village where our campaign began counted as his favourite terrain, you see, so he could only play rangers with clear direction in their lives.
Works for me. It's a poorly written ability, all told.
 


Remove ads

Top