*Why* full round metamagic for socerers?

[KarinsDad]

But IMO, WotC went really overboard when it came to metamagic stuff, especially for the sorcs. To cast a metamagic spell, sorcerers have to spend a feat, burn a higher spell slot, and take a longer casting time. That's an awful lot to give up, considering a wizard can do the same thing by just spending some GP on a special rod (and gets bonus feats as well).

Sorcerers can buy the rod too.

Next.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Because WotC hates sorcerers.

No, they don't. They hate bards. Screwing over the sorcerer in this case is merely coincidental.

 

[frankthedm]

No. I think the Sorcerer is the most potent core spell caster in the game system.

Spontaneous spell casting is huge. Spontaneous metamagic spell casting is even bigger.


I realize that I am in a minority with this opinion, but that's ok.

Oh, I agree with you.

 

[Infiniti2000]

No. I think the Sorcerer is the most potent core spell caster in the game system.

Only on even-numbered levels. On odd-numbered levels, they suck.

 

[werk]

You guys really don't think the slower spell progression, limited number of spells known and lack of bonus item creation feats screw over the sorcerer enough already?

No, that's what balances sorcs against wizzies to begin with.

The full round casting time is what balances metamagic, specifically, between the classes.


You can't bring up the old negatives that have already been resolved...It's like asking for change for a dollar, and once you get the change, asking for more change because coins aren't as good as dollars.

 

[SlagMortar]

Before this devolves into a sorcerer vs wizard thread (or maybe that only happens on the WoTC boards? one can hope), I think the answers proposed are in line with the designer's reasons for making spontaneous metamagic take a full round.

The power of prepared casters has a lot to do with playstyle. If your playstyle is such that spontaenous casters with their current limitations are more powerful than prepared casters then it is a necessary restriction. If your playstyle has prepared casters dominating, then maybe try lifting the restrictions or do something to limit the prepared casters, or leave it alone if you like it that way. If the average adventuring day consists of one or two big combats with fairly well known opponents then prepared casting has almost no disadvantages. If the average adventuring day consists of four or more combats with one or two against unforeseeable enemies, then spontaenous casting looks very potent compared to prepared casting.

The most often overlooked weakness of prepared casters in my opinion is how they lose options during the 3rd, 4th, 5th ... combats of the day. Spontaneous casters really shine when even though they have used 2/3rds of their spell slots they still have access to every spell and metamagic combo on their list.

In the end, I've seen prepared casting be more powerful than spontaneous casting as the more likely scenario, especially as I think the magic item and pretige class support for wizards greatly outshines that for sorcerers. The pain of the spontaneous caster is felt most acutely at 3rd level where the specialist wizard has 4 first level spells and 3 second level spells per day while the sorcerer has 6 first level spells per day, and the sorcerer only has 3 1st level spells to choose from.

 

[KarinsDad]

Only on even-numbered levels. On odd-numbered levels, they suck.

You mean like 1st level and 19th level?

 

[takasi]

No, that's what balances sorcs against wizzies to begin with.

No, that's what screws them over. They are not as powerful as wizards are without taking metamagic into account; preventing them from quickening spells is overkill.

In my campaigns all sorcerers are metamagic specialists. Familiars are for old farts who can't turn the pages of their spellbooks because they've run out of spit.

 

[Arnwyn]

You guys really don't think the slower spell progression, limited number of spells known and lack of bonus item creation feats screw over the sorcerer enough already?

No.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Sorcerers can buy the rod too.

But they can't just buy the rod.

Under the casting-time reading, a wizard with a metamagic rod can Empower his Magic Missile at casting time.

A sorcerer with a metamagic rod can Empower his Magic Missile at casting time by extending the casting to a full round action.

So buying the rod can reduce the investment from three factors (feat, increased slot, increased time) to two (rod, increased time), but not to one (rod) like the wizard under the casting-time reading.

(Of course, I'd suggest that even under the casting-time reading that a wizard should be required to take the full round... if we can understand 'sorcerers' to mean 'any spontaneous caster', we should really understand it to mean 'any caster applying a metamagic feat on the fly to a spell not prepared in a metamagic form in advance', which under the casting-time
reading is 'all of them'. It makes Quicken Rods useless for anyone, but it also resolves the inconsistency...)

-Hyp.