*Why* full round metamagic for socerers?

[KarinsDad]

But they can't just buy the rod.

Sure they can if the DM allows magic item purchase.

Under the casting-time reading, a wizard with a metamagic rod can Empower his Magic Missile at casting time.

A sorcerer with a metamagic rod can Empower his Magic Missile at casting time by extending the casting to a full round action.

So buying the rod can reduce the investment from three factors (feat, increased slot, increased time) to two (rod, increased time), but not to one (rod) like the wizard under the casting-time reading.

So?

Boo hoo. The poor Sorcerer can only Spontaneously Metamagic his spells 50 times a day as compared to the Wizard who can only do it 3 times a day per rod and 1 time a day per Sudden Feat. Boo hoo. With the rod, a Sorcerer still has to extend the casting time.

Seriously Hyp. It's perfectly ok and balanced for a magic item to be more beneficial for one class than another. The fact is, the rod is extremely beneficial to both classes since it allows both classes to do it without the feat and it allows both classes to do it without raising the spell level.

The real imbalance here is that a Cleric cannot use a Ring of Wizardry to double the number of divine spells of a given level. Now THAT'S unfair!

 

[billd91]

You guys really don't think the slower spell progression, limited number of spells known and lack of bonus item creation feats screw over the sorcerer enough already?

Not in the slightest. What screws the sorcerer over is having only 2 skill points per level while the wizard has the same number but backed up by his prime stat.

Sorcerers don't need any spellcasting help at all. They're quite potent as they are.

 

[Vuron]

It's a wierd rule designed for class balance that isn't given much of a "fluff" reason for existing. As such depending on where you stand on relative wizard vs sorceror power looks either neccesary or horribly unfair.

I think the best solution long term would be to make all the metamagic feats useable a fixed number of times per day and useable spontaneously (regardless of caster type). You'd have to change the prerequisites to the feats some (like making maximize require 5th level spells-etc) but that way wizards, bards, sorcerors, druids, clerics etc could all potentially be throwing around maximized spells.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Seriously Hyp. It's perfectly ok and balanced for a magic item to be more beneficial for one class than another.

I have no issue with that.

The issue I have is that by the reasoning that leads to the rod increasing casting time for the sorcerer, it should also increase casting time for the bard. And it should also increase casting time for the wizard.

I can't read the rules in such a fashion as to make it increase for the bard but not for the wizard, if the feat is applied on the fly to a spell not prepared in a metamagic form in advance.

I can read it so that it applies to sorcerers but neither bards nor wizards, but that seems like a bizarre restriction to me.

-Hyp.

 

[Diirk]

Sorcerers can buy the rod too.

Next.

But according to the FAQ, if a sorcerer uses a rod it still takes a full round action as he's still modifying the spell on the fly. Yet the wizard who also is modifying the spell on the fly in a way that he normally can't do somehow doesn't need to spend longer than the normal cast time ...

 

[Stalker0]

So to answer the person's question:

It is a balance reason by WOTC to balance sorcs with wizards.

I personally think its bunk, and as you can see there's some division on the issue, but that's the reason.

 

[KarinsDad]

But according to the FAQ, if a sorcerer uses a rod it still takes a full round action as he's still modifying the spell on the fly. Yet the wizard who also is modifying the spell on the fly in a way that he normally can't do somehow doesn't need to spend longer than the normal cast time ...

And this is important why?

Should we change a Darkskull so that good casters can use it?

Should we change a Ring of Wizardry so that Clerics can use it?

Should we change the skill points of a Fighter so that he can more easily use a Harp of Charming like a Bard?

Why is it important for all magical items to work exactly the same for all classes?

 

[Imagicka]

Only on even-numbered levels. On odd-numbered levels, they suck.

Kinda like the Star Trek movies?

 

[Stalker0]

Why is it important for all magical items to work exactly the same for all classes?

Its not that the magic item works different. According to a lot of people who have posted, spontaneous metamagic is so powerful and so amazing that it has to be carefully balanced with a full round casting time.

Yet, with a rod the wizard now recieves the benefit of this special spontaneous metamagic, yet doesn't have to pay the full round casting cost.

Which by the arguments made earlier, is overpowered.

 

[SlagMortar]

Diirk's point has an underlying assumption that outside of metamagic rods sorcerers are less than or equal in power to wizards. Thus adding an item (metamagic rods) that make a wizard more powerful and give the wizard an ability previously held only by sorcerers (on the fly metamagic) is a bad idea. Edit: Only the ability for wizards as pointed out above is even better since they don't have to take the full round.

Is there an similar item for sorcerer's such as a Lesser Rod of Spell Knowing that allows the sorcerer to use a level 1-3 spell slot to cast a spell of that level that is not on their known spells list 3 times per day?

If you designed wizards and clerics with class abilities of exactly equal power, and then allowed only magic items that make the cleric better, would the items be balanced?