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Why Games Workshop is not a good business

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Sunseeker

Guest
It was actually kinda funny, I was thinking about this the other day. I had recently visited my local gaming store where on a previous visit the owner has complained about how "Wizards needed to personally apologize" to him for not supporting his LGS as much as they used to, and how he wouldn't carry any of their products until then.

On this visit, he mentioned quite casually how he couldn't afford to purcahse even a new shipment of dice because he had to drop $1500 on Games Workshop products to remain in good standing with the company and continue to get their official support.

I left the store and bust up laughing in my car. Wizards needs to personally apologize to this guy, but he'll throw every last penny at Games Workshop to stay in "good standing" with them. Irony.
 

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Glade Riven

Adventurer
Loyalty doesn't really exist in a product company. They produce product, customer buys it (or not). Relationship ends.

Yeeeaaaahh...no. For you, maybe this is the case, but brand loyalty is a huge part of business for any major product company. Go ask Apple. Or ask Coke what happened when they came out with New Coke in the 80s. Just a few examples. There's a lot more out there.
 

Lwaxy

Cute but dangerous
I only had negative experiences with GW employes. They were generally rude, impatient and sneering down on any other games or products. At the game fair in Essen, I was once grumbled at for my Decipher T-Shirt while I tried to alert them to someone thieving. Needless to say I was rather with the thief after that.

I find them generally overpriced, but they are not the only place that's too expensive for their quality. Not to say they don't have cool stuff but I can do better for less money and with more friendly, more involved in the hobby employes elsewhere.
 



Dire Bare

Legend
all internet threads on GW must link to

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Heh, I've had those types of experiences in all sorts of gaming stores. GW shops have long had a reputation for pushy sales folk and all, but to be fair, GW has really cleaned up and this is mostly a problem of the past . . . at least in the US and the small handful of stores I've visited in the UK.

GW bashing is a popular sport akin to WotC bashing, and to me, it's all just cranky, whiny noise. Neither company is perfect, but they make products I enjoy at prices I find reasonable, so I'm fine. Now, more than ever, there's plenty of competition in miniature wargames, so spend your money elsewhere if you are a GW hater.
 

Cor Azer

First Post
Yeeeaaaahh...no. For you, maybe this is the case, but brand loyalty is a huge part of business for any major product company. Go ask Apple. Or ask Coke what happened when they came out with New Coke in the 80s. Just a few examples. There's a lot more out there.

Eh... I'm not so sure those are really counter-examples.

The Coke one in particular shows my point - Coke changed the formula for New Coke, and there was a huge backlash, so they changed it back. Ie - sales went down, because people wouldn't just buy it because it had 'Coke' on the label. That's pretty much the opposite of loyalty. Fortunately for Coke-drinkers everywhere, the management decided the the change was undoable, and they wanted their sales back, so New Coke went away.

The Apple one is closer, but it also has the catch that people who already have Apple products (I suspect) tend to buy more Apple products because they know they're designed to work together. That can be a huge inconvenience already overcome. People keep buying Apple products because Apple keeps making quality products.

Of course, there I'm only really speaking anecdotally, which has already been established as 'not data'. I'm a big fan of my Macbook and iPhone, but not so much my trial with an iPad. The first two just worked together right away (in so much as I've needed them to), but I had technical problems with the iPad. Kept the first two, but returned the latter.

I'm probably moving the fenceposts here, but I can see how brand loyalty would be important to some sort of hybrid product/service company - I'm mainly thinking car dealers. Sure, their big moneymakers are the cars, but they also want to drive business into their service departments, so making a whole 'Toyota' experience can be key to that business model. And, I'd have to say in my case, is arguably successful, since my last 5 cars have all been from the same dealership, and I've always gone back there for service. I'd argue that it was because they've given me the best service in my decades of car ownership, but I'm not averse to the idea that I've been brainwashed by them.
 

Glade Riven

Adventurer
Oh, I've been in plenty of arguments with Mac "cultists" (not the same as a Mac user). While their current batch of stuff is (usually) decent, their image is what really drives sales, as well as many of these high-end pretentious clothing stores found at my nearby mall. Whoo-boy, some of those discussions back before Mac switched to Intel and they finally worked the major bugs out of OS X...
 

Wordwarrior

First Post
They sell a great looking product. I've always liked the sculpts on the GW minis. Never bought into 40K or any of the other games, though, as I still feel they are overpriced for what they are.

I can't say whether or not they are a good business, but I think it's going to be a moot point when physical printing becomes more refined over the next 3 to 5 years. Then you can just buy a handful of minis/bitz for cheap over on ebay, laser scan them, and print out as big an army as you like, for a fraction of the cost of buying the product from the company...

BBC News - 3D printing offers ability to print physical objects
 

Leviatham

Explorer
So, why do us fans of GW get painted with one wide, and misaimed, brush?
There are various reasons. However I will admit that it was a rude thing to say and I apologise for that. I know someone has asked me to do that before and I haven’t. The reason for that is because I refuse to apologise to someone who requests the apology on someone else’s behalf. Since my comment affects you directly, I have no problems to admit it was wrong of me to say so.
However saying so wasn’t without its reasons. I find the attitude of some of the GW fans to feel like they’ve been brainwashed. The inability to take on board the criticism and simply defend GW not for what they do well, or simply, like Matt did, by showing where I was wrong, and never ever ever ever ever ever ever admit to what GW does badly and always always always defend the company no matter what, is what makes us (with us I mean people outside that circle) look at you guys as if you’ve been brainwashed.
Better how? Are you suggesting they become a full on RPG retailer? That's decidely not to their strengths.
This sort of questions is what makes me feel you haven’t really read my post. You might have gone through the words, but certainly not taken then on board.
Did what I said (“ just by distributing the materials they license, nothing more,”)really escaped you? Do I really need to explain that further?
What new customers would come to a GW store? If a potential player was unfamiliar with GW, why would they think to look there for RPG stuff?
Are you serious asking me that? Considering how targeted to children the GW products are, is it really that difficult to see what new customers could be targeted and who could come into the shop?
So the end of the line on your suggestion is that they become a full-blown gaming retailer - at a decidely greater cost to them, and potentislly less profit for them, to what? Make mobey for other companies?
My end like of my suggestion was very clear from the start: “Sell also the products you license”.
I don’t mean to be offensive, but reading my post, and some of the responses more slowly will give you the answers to your questions.
Ignore? I can't say if they ignored it. Seems likely they would have evaluated the risk/reward, and determined it wasn't worth their time. But hey, fans still want RPG and video games based on their IP. So, they go the licensing route. Seems rather win-win to me.
Yes, seems likely, but that is just another assumption, like the ones I have made. I am not questioning the licensing model. It works and I am glad I can find their RPGs and boardgames without having to step into their shop.
So far, to me it feels like they ignore that sales potential. Maybe they don’t and I am happy to be put wrong if I am given so evidence of the contrary. Until then, I will believe they ignore it.

Again. What people? At what cost?
Please refer to my previous answer.
Without knowing more about your retail, this is obviously conjecture. But did your company also build and distribute the cameras you sold? That changes things hugely.
Giving up shelf spaces of your own products to sell other people's products costs you twice - you either pay to expand your shop or you lose the space for you own goods (and thus sell less) and you don't make as much money on them.
Not true. Some of the shelf and shop window space we gave up was to sell photos from other photographers. They were side by side with photos taken by us. Plenty of people bought those photos and we proceeded to frame them. True that we didn’t make less money from those sales, but we had a satisfied customer who came back for more and, most importantly, who spoke to their friends about us.
I can't say if the experiment was done, but a close approximation might come back from other gaming stores who stock GW products - what percentafe of people going in for other reasons pick up GW? Not completely accurate, since the game shop might not be pushing it the same as GW would, but then you're effectively asking GW to push other people's stuff as hard as their own. Turn about is fair.
You ignore other factors. A small shop (or even a big one) doesn’t have the network infrastructure, the branding, the reputation and the sales force. They already have all of that and it would be much cheaper for them to distribute products to their shops than for a small shop to get them.
The game shop, if they’re doing their shop properly, will find out what the customer wants and find the right product. In the right manner, will also try to showcase other products that could be of interest and try to sell something else. GW’s shops are no different, or shouldn’t be.

I'm still not sure what these hypothetical things are that you think they should do, and how they would help the industry.
So far, it seems to amount to "they should sell other people's stuff" with the pay-off being "new customers", but I don't see how them spending extra money to get lower profit items gets them new customers.


Unless you're saying they should produce all these other items. That seems foolish to attempt to be an everything gaming company.
Again, please read previous responses. The most obvious I have said is “sell the products you license”.
Tangentially related - how'd WotC do with their branded game stores? They were a bit more 'horizontally' focused, no? Sometimes it's good business to let others do the experiments.
I can’t tell. We never had a WotC shop in Spain and I never saw one in the UK. I can’t comment on that one.
 

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