D&D General "Why Greyhawk?" in 2023 - grodog's thoughts

[grodog]

For some reason, I see this idea supported when talking about older settings, but largely absent from conversations about new releases.
Edit: Maybe not as absent as I thought.

A few (of many) comments regarding Spelljammer from some posters that I have nothing but respect for: [snip]

Now, in fairness, there were posters that loved the room to grow, but they seemed to be a minority.

Thanks, that's quite helpful, since I don't play 5e, and am not really plugged into its zeitgeist.

Sure, but first I'd like to mention that I agree with you. Every setting needs room to grow. Every map needs some blank space. Every court needs a few nameless NPCs to build out. Rumors, plot hooks, and contradictions, etc. all add opportunities for a DM to really make their own game in a setting.

Gatekeeper needs the opportunity to grow into an important character through play at the table:

“Greetings, Professor! Nothing to report!”
—The Gatekeeper's usual greeting

Allan.

 

[Bupp]

Greyhawk has a dear place in my heart. All of my early campaigns as DM were set there.

My current flavor on worlds runs different now, but I learned so much from that first boxed set about world building, and do it much the same today as presented in those books.

 

[Bupp]

I also fear what a 50th Anniversary Greyhawk would look like, after seeing what WotC did with Magic the Gathering's 30th Anniversary.

 

[Shiroiken]

I think you set your clock back too far. Ebberon was a very good setting with a new hook (magic as technology).

I'm not a fan of Ebberon, but I also immediately thought of its huge popularity. WotC can provide good setting information, they just haven't really done a great job in 5E. The exception to this I've heard is the Ravnica setting, of which one of my players is a huge fan (he DMs it for another group).

 

[Clint_L]

I think Wildemount is really good, but it is largely from Matt Mercer and he's an old-schooler. It feels similar to Greyhawk.

 

[Starfox]

I use Greyhawk, but have made it my own, and we are well into the 6th century.

Why do I like Greyhawk? Its because I feel the world is more coherent than similiar worlds like Golarion or the Forgotten Realms. They are all kitchen sink worlds, but to neighbouring countries in Greyhawk carry much stronger similarities than in comparable settings, implying they have a common history. I love this. I think this is because the world was initially made for wargaming, which required more history.

 

[Aldarc]

People also seem to like the Nentir Vale but despite playing 4e during it's lifetime I never read much about it. I don't remember a supplement specific to it as a campaign setting, more that it just had flavor text mixed in with the monster entries.

For the benefit of the OP, I will keep this thread about Greyhawk and light on the Nentir Vale.

Nentir Vale is really the sample "Points of Light" setting, hence why it was sometimes nicknamed "PoLand." I think fans congregated around the name Nentir Vale over the alternatives (e.g., Nerath, PoLand, World Axis Mythos, etc.) because it was the starting location in the DMG 1 that formed the frame of reference and focus for the setting, with the area being the primary place where a lot of adventures were set. The Nentir Vale is more of an implied setting that was expanded through the various publications: e.g., adventures, monster entries, class and power entries, planes books, etc.

There was (supposedly) going to be a Nentir Vale campaign book, but it was canned with 4e. So its existence as an official campaign setting is a bit nebulous. But it has its fans, IMHO, because its existence as a loosely-sketched out implied setting sits on the other side of the spectrum from the Forgotten Realms as a explicit setting that is heavily fleshed out.

 

[Quickleaf]

Am I recalling right that Greyhawk rights were tied up in litigation? Or was the litigation unrelated to rights to the setting? I recall Rob Kuntz obliquely referencing it last year, but can't recall any details.

 

[grodog]

Nentir Vale is really the sample "Points of Light" setting, hence why it was sometimes nicknamed "PoLand." I think fans congregated around the name Nentir Vale over the alternatives (e.g., Nerath, PoLand, World Axis Mythos, etc.) because it was the starting location in the DMG 1 that formed the frame of reference and focus for the setting, with the area being the primary place where a lot of adventures were set. The Nentir Vale is more of an implied setting that was expanded through the various publications: e.g., adventures, monster entries, class and power entries, planes books, etc.

I think that's part of the secret sauce behind Greyhawk's enduring appeal---setting detail is revealed in small doses that accumulated through play in adventures, while fighting monsters, etc.

There was (supposedly) going to be a Nentir Vale campaign book, but it was canned with 4e. So its existence as an official campaign setting is a bit nebulous. But it has its fans, IMHO, because its existence as a loosely-sketched out implied setting sits on the other side of the spectrum from the Forgotten Realms as a explicit setting that is heavily fleshed out.

Your description sounds interesting, but since I'm pretty unfamiliar with 4e and 5e, can you point me to which books/adventures/etc. best define the implied Nentir Vale setting?

Am I recalling right that Greyhawk rights were tied up in litigation? Or was the litigation unrelated to rights to the setting? I recall Rob Kuntz obliquely referencing it last year, but can't recall any details.

Not that I'm aware of. Rob has been trying to recover his Castle Greyhawk levels from the Gygax Estate for years, which might be what you're thinking of?

Allan.