D&D General Why grognards still matter

[Ruin Explorer]

I am not familiar with the criticism, any chance you can enlighten me?

Okay, I can't pretend that I fully understand the criticism, but, it seems like a significant proportion of TLJ-haters absolutely loathe the scene with the kid and the broom showing he's just a random kid who happens to have force powers. They seem to regard the inclusion of this scene as somehow emblematic of everything wrong (in their eyes) with TLJ.

I just went through a couple of Reddit threads trying to find like a coherent criticism of the scene, and I can't - but if TLJ gets hated on, it gets brought up, and people discussed the poor kid an awful lot (indeed, entire threads full of it!).

The closest I can get is that people seem to think it's somehow insulting that he's showing that, even as Luke dies, there are other people in the universe with the Force, that it's not gone. There also seems to be some wild and very fanciful assumption that we're meant to seem Broom Boy specifically - like THIS KID specifically - as the future of the Jedi - when I think any sane person understands he's a symbol of hope not a specific character!

I feel like this is showing how some people (not so much here on ENworld oddly enough) have brainrot from Star Wars and see like every tiny character is a specific named character and super-important and so on. So they just couldn't parse the scene in a sane way, that kid has got to be Juumbo Dobulefryze, future Jedi Master or whatever!

 

[Micah Sweet]

Loki is the one I'd actually count there - that is the one actual proper MCU show that has had more than one season.

Sounds like you're setting your own standards here, one that support your opinions, and ignoring ones that don't.

 

[Maxperson]

Grognards still matter because we've got more money and more time. Further, we stick with the hobby, whereas a lot of the newer players come and go pretty quickly.

Losing us may seem insignificant from a raw percentage perspective, but our disappearance we would have a disproportionate impact on the TTRPG industry.

I'll give you more money, but I and my grognard friends have significantly less time than we had in our teens and 20s.

 

[KYRON45]

So they just couldn't parse the scene in a sane way, that kid has got to be Juumbo Dobulefryze, future Jedi Master or whatever!

How do we know he won't be?*

*I don't know anything about Star Wars.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Sounds like you're setting your own standards here, one that support your opinions, and ignoring ones that don't.

That is what I'm doing! No sarcasm!

Like, what I was looking for was, which I might not have clearly expressed is, are there any Disney-MCU-era shows, which are live-action, and which are definitely MCU shows, not tenuously connected to the MCU, which had multiple season - and the answer is yes, Loki did. Which I had forgotten.

I kind of miss Agents of SHIELD, it's from so long ago that they used to make 22-episode seasons when it started! You almost never get more than 13 or so episodes for anything but ghastly procedurals now. It gave them a lot more time to work on the characters - which they needed because some of those character suuuuuucked in S1, but they got there. Daisy especially for me went from "Ugh not Daisy please!" to "Yay Daisy!" over S1-3.

 

[Maxperson]

I actually liked both those movies. But TLJ is still terrible.

I didn't like either of the last two in that trilogy. The first movie was likeable, but only because it was essentially a remake of A New Hope and could have served as a good kicking off point for future movies that were good. That didn't happen, though.

 

[Maxperson]

Okay, I can't pretend that I fully understand the criticism, but, it seems like a significant proportion of TLJ-haters absolutely loathe the scene with the kid and the broom showing he's just a random kid who happens to have force powers. They seem to regard the inclusion of this scene as somehow emblematic of everything wrong (in their eyes) with TLJ.

I just went through a couple of Reddit threads trying to find like a coherent criticism of the scene, and I can't - but if TLJ gets hated on, it gets brought up, and people discussed the poor kid an awful lot (indeed, entire threads full of it!).

I disliked it because it was poorly written and mistreated Luke's character badly, and it killed Luke off unnecessarily. The kid with the broom didn't bother me.

The closest I can get is that people seem to think it's somehow insulting that he's showing that, even as Luke dies, there are other people in the universe with the Force, that it's not gone. There also seems to be some wild and very fanciful assumption that we're meant to seem Broom Boy specifically - like THIS KID specifically - as the future of the Jedi - when I think any sane person understands he's a symbol of hope not a specific character!

Change that to future of the force and I would agree with you. Jedi are just one of several orders of force users and a random untrained kid with a broom in a galaxy with no Jedi is really unlikely to end up a Jedi.

 

[Maxperson]

That is what I'm doing! No sarcasm!

Like, what I was looking for was, which I might not have clearly expressed is, are there any Disney-MCU-era shows, which are live-action, and which are definitely MCU shows, not tenuously connected to the MCU, which had multiple season - and the answer is yes, Loki did. Which I had forgotten.

I kind of miss Agents of SHIELD, it's from so long ago that they used to make 22-episode seasons when it started! You almost never get more than 13 or so episodes for anything but ghastly procedurals now. It gave them a lot more time to work on the characters - which they needed because some of those character suuuuuucked in S1, but they got there. Daisy especially for me went from "Ugh not Daisy please!" to "Yay Daisy!" over S1-3.

22 episode seasons doesn't remove it from the MCU, which Coulson and S.H.I.E.L.D. are clearly part of. Nick Fury(Sam Jackson) made an appearance. Sif from Thor: Dark World made an appearance in the series. The show dealt with the aftermath of the Avengers New York battle. The Avengers were referenced multiple times. And a lot more.

It's 100% part of the MCU universe and qualifies as a live action series of it.

 

[Velderan]

My average to include con fees and con rooms is about $1,667 per year. this includes office supplies, swag dice for new people, etc.

Unless that's WotC running the con, that's not a good comparison though because WotC isn't the one making that money. In the case of AFOL spending, Lego is the one seeing the thousands of dollars being spent on their products which doesn't include money being spent to go to Lego conventions and such. Lego has absolutely cracked the code on how to get adults to part with their money in a way WotC only wishes their game was setup to ever achieve. As an example I am pretty sure I bought every single PF2e hardcover and adventure path book Paizo sold last year (which is more than what WotC released last year) and my Lego spending was significantly more than what Paizo saw from me. Having a spouse enabling your hobby purchases is an expensive thing. lol

 

[Scribe]

All y'all talking about how expensive D&D is and the Warhammer fans are all like
View attachment 397690

Its such a different scale it always makes me (a former WH/30K/40K player for decades) chuckle.