D&D General Why grognards still matter

[Ruin Explorer]

I'd say it's split between them, specifically because of when it came out, near the blurred line between one generation and the next. 1977 means many Gen Xers were children too young to really watch film; the eldest would've only been 12, and there were six more years' worth of them waiting to be born. The vast majority of its audience when Star Wars released would've ranged from the youngest Baby Boomers on up to young Silent Generation folks (since if you were mid-30s in 1977, you were, properly speaking, Silent Generation.) By the time the last film came out, the youngest Gen Xers were still only three years old--a little too young.

That said, I will certainly agree that Gen X adopted many terms from Star Wars because they had filtered into the pop-culture zeitgeist. But I'm not sure whether that's necessarily the most relevant thing or not. As an example, it's mostly people of my generation who use Marvel movie jokes (like "I don't feel so good Mr. Stark..." or "I understood that reference!" or "Perfectly balanced, as all things should be"), but those movies were coming out at basically the time and place for Gen Z to be the self-perceived "owners" if this pattern generalized.

I have nothing to say about the actual plot or contents of the films, though, because I haven't seen them and everything I've ever heard tells me I made the correct choice not to do so. (I have heard that Rogue One is actually quite good though.)

Sorry this is probably me being unclear, but I don't mean the ages of people who saw it, which you're entirely correct on.

I mean the ages of people who think they own, like in a cultural sense, own Star Wars. And because they were all kids when it came out, that's GenX. There's a common feeling among a lot (by no means all or even most) of GenX Star Wars fans that it is a fundamentally GenX thing, and their generation, their age group should have the say on what is and what isn't Star Wars.

This sorta-happened with Star Trek, too, I note (with the generation who saw it as young people in the 1960s), but it was pre-internet so I only saw through Trek fanzines and and only a few years after the fact. And TNG/DS9/VOY were so much more successful than TOS that it got forgotten.

Rogue One is only a pretty ok movie, sadly - they tried to fix a much worse movie with huge re-writes and re-shoots (by Tony Gilroy), but they only partially succeeded, it's like a really solid high C+. Andor (all Tony Gilroy, not just the fixes) on the other hand is utterly fantastic. Some older fans are hyperfans of Rogue One because what it does get right isn't plot, isn't dialogue, isn't characterisation (except of the robot, Alan Tudyk don't miss), isn't action, isn't pacing - it screws all of them up - isn't really anything you'd normally see as primary in a thriller of this kind, but rather, it's visual design and FAN SERVICE. The dread fan service! But here instead of nerds getting overexcited and sweaty about anime girls in bathing suits, it's nerds getting overexcited and sweaty about Darth Vader straight-up murdering a bunch of rebels in a very gangsta way. The visual design and FX are also incredibly on point for the older movies and just like look like people (incorrectly) remember those movies as looking. They're great - except for the truly abysmal face FX for two characters. Unfortunately the movie hit at a bad time for face work - past the time when you'd just recast someone, but before the time where advanced models and/or AI could make face replacements look decent. It's awful stuff, and I've never been more forcefully de-immersed by a movie than the """Leia""" cameo. I have no idea why Gareth Edwards thought this was okay - I kind of suspect he didn't, but that by the time it was "finished", it was too late to fix it by just recasting the roles.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yes and no. Like I said, Disney is bringing back Daredevil with the same timeline and characters from the Netflix show. So they are not completely separate from the MCU.

Though to be honest, it seems Disney is getting more flexible with what is the MCU. The new fantastic 4 movie definitely doesn't fit into the current MCU timeline / understanding

Its an easy out because that's mostly set in an alternate multiversal world. The apparent premise is at the end that FF will end up in ours, but they didn't have their accident in, nor operate in it until, well, things happen.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Its an easy out because that's mostly set in an alternate multiversal world. The apparent premise is at the end that FF will end up in ours, but they didn't have their accident in, nor operate in it until, well, things happen.

Only way to make their story work with the MCU as it stands.

 

[SteveC]

As someone of a grognard age who doesn't identify with a lot of the typical grognard views, I think they do matter. A lot of media franchises have decided that people beyond a certain age aren't their target audience. I guess I have to ask, "How's that working out for you?" I had initially heard great things about the 5.5E rollout, but recent threads here and from the YouTube commenters I listen to have made me question it.

I know that I'm not the target audience for 5.5E, but even my extended gaming friends group, most of whom are much younger than I am, hasn't expressed excitement over the new rules. That really surprised me! I'm not going to yuck anyone's yum, but if things aren't working out like expected, perhaps looking at who isn't buying product, or part of a franchise anymore is in order.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Okay, I can't pretend that I fully understand the criticism, but, it seems like a significant proportion of TLJ-haters absolutely loathe the scene with the kid and the broom showing he's just a random kid who happens to have force powers. They seem to regard the inclusion of this scene as somehow emblematic of everything wrong (in their eyes) with TLJ.

I think the issue was, the message of the movie was anti-privilege (of any type).

 

[Zardnaar]

As someone of a grognard age who doesn't identify with a lot of the typical grognard views, I think they do matter. A lot of media franchises have decided that people beyond a certain age aren't their target audience. I guess I have to ask, "How's that working out for you?" I had initially heard great things about the 5.5E rollout, but recent threads here and from the YouTube commenters I listen to have made me question it.

I know that I'm not the target audience for 5.5E, but even my extended gaming friends group, most of whom are much younger than I am, hasn't expressed excitement over the new rules. That really surprised me! I'm not going to yuck anyone's yum, but if things aren't working out like expected, perhaps looking at who isn't buying product, or part of a franchise anymore is in order.

I think the simple explanation is 5E probably peaked years ago. On paper Covid tines, real terms probably 2019 or so.

It had already peaked and 5.5 regardless of how good it was or what direction ot took wouldn't have the same impact.

It's also aimed at existing players more than newer players imho.

 

[Lanefan]

There was also Jessica Jones, Daredevil, and Punisher that each had 2 or more seasons. Interestingly, Daredevil is coming back even.

Agent Carter also ran two seasons, and it deserved more.

 

[Lanefan]

Okay, I can't pretend that I fully understand the criticism, but, it seems like a significant proportion of TLJ-haters absolutely loathe the scene with the kid and the broom showing he's just a random kid who happens to have force powers. They seem to regard the inclusion of this scene as somehow emblematic of everything wrong (in their eyes) with TLJ.

I just went through a couple of Reddit threads trying to find like a coherent criticism of the scene, and I can't - but if TLJ gets hated on, it gets brought up, and people discussed the poor kid an awful lot (indeed, entire threads full of it!).

The closest I can get is that people seem to think it's somehow insulting that he's showing that, even as Luke dies, there are other people in the universe with the Force, that it's not gone. There also seems to be some wild and very fanciful assumption that we're meant to seem Broom Boy specifically - like THIS KID specifically - as the future of the Jedi - when I think any sane person understands he's a symbol of hope not a specific character!

I feel like this is showing how some people (not so much here on ENworld oddly enough) have brainrot from Star Wars and see like every tiny character is a specific named character and super-important and so on. So they just couldn't parse the scene in a sane way, that kid has got to be Juumbo Dobulefryze, future Jedi Master or whatever!

All fair, and yet they've left the door open such that if they do want to make that kid become a significant character in future instalments, they can. Smart move, IMO.

I actually don't mind Eps 7-9. TFA is IMO very good and the following two are good enough. In hindsight, the one major change I'd make would be to reduce the screen time of the old-guard characters (all of them) and trust the new-guard actors/characters to carry the films, as they showed they could.

 

[Lanefan]

I'll give you more money, but I and my grognard friends have significantly less time than we had in our teens and 20s.

For now.

Keep in mind, though, that the older of the grogs are in or approaching retirement, at which point hobby time becomes vastly more available.

 

[User51]

For now.

Keep in mind, though, that the older of the grogs are in or approaching retirement, at which point hobby time becomes vastly more available.

I hope you are right, but given my current situation, the only people I'll be playing hobby games with will be much younger.