D&D General 70% Of Games End At Lvl 7?

[renbot]

Back when we were younger (same basic gaming group on/off for 25+ years) and played almost weekly (3 of 4 weeks average I'd say) we regularly made it to the mid-teen levels and twice hit Level 20. Now that we average 1 game every three weeks (stupid life getting in the way of gaming) we usually wrap up around level 8-10, often because of DM (me) fatigue. It just takes so damn long to reach level 8+ now that I lose interest in a game that I think about all the time but the players really only think about 1-2x a month.

However, I am currently running an Eberron campaign that just hit 7th level and I am more fired up than ever. This game will hit mid-teens if I have anything to say about it!

 

[GrimCo]

Throughout most of my life, I've always been able to find the time for social activities. But bear in mind I never had kids, which makes things a bit less complicated for me. I was able to game in my 20s, but things became a lot easier for me in my mid-30s because a lot of people my age had more free time. Most of my peer group have established careers, their kids were old enough that their parents didn't need them around constantly, and they're financially stable enough to easily afford gaming supplies.

Kids take lot of time. I love them, they are my pride and joy, but they drain energy. In 5 years, all the kids from the group will be at least elementary school, so, more time and energy. Unless wife changes her mind and we go for kiddo numero 3, and friends wife changes her mind and they go for kiddo numero 4. One friend who played dropped gaming all together since he got twins in addition to one preteen and one early teen kid.

With all that, both myself and other guys in our gamin group find time for social activities and hobbies. Problem is, ttrpgs are a hobby, not the hobby. And i would guess, we are not minority in that regard. When you have loads of free time, it's easier to cram more hobbies and you don't need to pick between them. When free time is luxury and you have few different hobbies you like equally, well, you need to pick.

 

[Lanefan]

Maybe, but I don't think so.

Yes, the 1999 market research data covered players from ages 12 to 35.

And in more recent days (like, in 2021) we were told that players aged 35+ account for something on the order of a quarter of the player base. So, if we assume that held in the past as well, at least in theory, that's a large enough population to skew the results.

But...

We'd have to expect that somehow, the time between character restarts was generally much different for 36+ than for the younger groups at the time. And I don't see as we have a reason to expect that.

I do, in that it seems reasonable to posit that older players and DMs will tend towards having settled in to what they're doing, and-or have been doing it longer and more consistently.

Anyone at college age or higher who got in during the 1e boom times (or earlier) wasn't heard; and by 1999 that cohort may well have been a fair percentage of what little remaining player base the game had.

 

[Lanefan]

They have always been around, but starting a few years ago the "we only play Official Adventures" type groups became popular.

As soon as "An Official Adventure" came out they would game. and finish it....and then stop. Chances are there was not another adventure for them to go on. So they would just wait and not game at all.

Then when the next adventure comes out, get back together.....often with new characters....and run through that one.

In fairness, running it that way is usually light-years easier on the DM; which may well be why a lot of them do it.

 

[Theory of Games]

Few years back WotC released that number from Beyond. 10% make it to 10, 1% epic tier.

Older editions not sure but TSR alumni are on record saying higher level stuff didn't sell well. There was a big drop off in BE and CMI apparently for example.

This raises interesting questions about paragon paths and epic levels in 4E and prestige classes in 3.X which generally required 5 levels just to qualify. I suspect a lot of 3.X is broken involved a lot of theory craft hence Pathfinder buying another decade for it.

My current campaign is 10 plan was for 12 but a player today suggested calling it and starting again. AFAIK between two gamestores and local University club I'm running the highest level game locally outside of unknown home games. Level 10 has some big power ups in 5.5.

DM quits/can't be bothered is main reason imho. I think the WotC numbers were probably about right overall but they were a while ago. I know a lot of ENworld isn't playing or barely plays.

Do you think the 70% was accurate outside Beyond or if the number changed in last 6 or 7 year?

YES.

Unless the group has strong roleplayers, it's pretty easy to end campaigns early. IME bad roleplay is like watching a really bad film: I'm looking to exit as soon as I finish my popcorn. It's hard finding players who really get into roleplay and can lock-in with character immersion. The "Method Actor" and "Storyteller" playstyles --

Unfortunately, most players IME are trash. The times I want to see the campaign finished I just increase the pace while keeping in-game social interaction to a minimum. IME most online (Play-by-Post & VTT) games end prematurely due to (1) most of the players realize they're in the wrong group or (2) the GM realizes they are in the wrong group or (3) most of the group can't handle how slow online play is.

I've had to sift trash players from offline groups more than once because playing with THAT GUY is taxing. I miss offline gaming because the players never want to stop: a 4-hour session turns into 6 hours turns into 8 ~~~ even with adults. I love that aspect of the hobby, but if I don't have the right group of players, usually the campaign won't endure

 

[Maxperson]

this is main way to see higher levels.

start at levels 5-7, level up every 3 or 4 sessions.

if you play biweekly, for a year, that is around 8 level-ups.

and most campaigns survive for about a year.

My group typically starts at 3rd level and plays weekly. We level up every 3-4 sessions on average, with some levels taking shorter or longer depending on what happens in game. Then there are weeks here and there that we take off because people can't make it, holidays, etc. The group typically hits the high teens to 20th level in around 12-15 months.

 

[Maxperson]

What level spell is this one?

It just sort of happens. Beware of marshmallows.