Why I don't like Bodaks...

[Bad Paper]

Reincarnate can work

huh?

A creature that has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be returned to life by this spell.

How's that again?

 

[anon]

Bodaks are un-fun.

Don't use them unless the party has been warned and has some way to protect themselves.

 

[KarinsDad]

In the Living Eberron adventure that I'm currently running on these forums, the bad guy had a headless skeleton with a Vargouille sitting on it disguised as a woman with a heavy silk dress, and layers of veils and a hat covering the head (and it still didn't move right). It was pretty entertaining to me to be able to announce to one of the players that as the "black veiled woman" moved past, their character could make an attack of opportunity on her head, or her body (there had been plenty of odd occurances at that point to indicate something was up).

Attacks of Opportunity occur based on the Move Action of the creature moving, not a creature being moved.

When the Wizard walks by, one does not get an AoO versus his Familiar. The Familiar is stll being "defensive".

The sole exception to this Bull Rush TMK.

 

[pallandrome]

Well huh. How about that. Totally missed the lack of reincarnate by death effect...

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I don't know that I agree with this characterization of save or die effects.

They can be quite climactic. Several years ago, I was playing a high level Living Greyhawk game with another player who had a 15th level (or so) wizard. He was fond of finger of death and would usually intone his verbal component when his character cast it: "I give you... the wages of sin." To make a long story short, our party was attacked by a large group of half-fiend winter wolves (it wasn't the best module in the world, but they at least had been established as a presence in the mod beforehand so it's not like they just jumped out of the blue"). We divided the battlefield with walls of force, walls of fire, and acid fog and had just managed to kill the rest of the pack when the leader flew out of the top of our acid fog. The paladin on his flying mount charged it and the pack leader cast a blasphemy that paralyzed both paladin and mount. Next in initiative was the wizard. "I grant you... the wages of sin." The pack leader failed its save and died. Definitely climactic rather than anti-climactic.

I've had the same experience with my mid-level Living Arcanis cohort and her phantasmal killer domain spell. After healing a woman seemingly cast adrift on the sea, the woman revealed herself to really be a sea hag and attacked our party. Upon seeing this, I had my cohort cast Phantasmal Killer "You who have known my Lady's gifts, now feel her wrath." (unlike my friend who plays the wizard, I don't have specific epigrams for my spells, but I do like to toss out an improvised dramatic proclamation every now and then). And, with that, the sea hag failed both saves and died. It was abrupt, but not anti-climactic. To me at least, it seemed like a very appropriate way for the combat to end.

Save or die effects are one of the sacred cows of this edition. Epic battles that abruptly end with one anti-climactic die roll generally aren't a lot of fun. Spells and other limited effects that are designed to protect from them aren't really much help in the fun department. I definitely like the idea of con damage in place of out & out death.

 

[pallandrome]

Personally, I have no problem with save or die effects, what I have a problem with is death effects that prevent a player, as per RAW, from bringing his character back by means that won't be availible until significantly later. Specifically, it's a problem with a CR 8 creature with the potential ability to kill a character before the party can act, at a time when the party has no ability to repair the damage.

That being said, I do like save or die effects that are RECOVERABLE. The example of a party member being taken out by Phantasmal Killer is perfect. Since it's not a "death effect" then Raise Dead can bring the person back, but it can still put the party in full on panic mode that the BBEG just wiped out 1/4 of the attackers with a wave of his hand.

 

[airwalkrr]

Cut the head off a bodak and I think it is dead. I'd check if vorpal kills corporeal undead.

In my game I changed save or die to save or dying (down to -1 hp instead of -10). This way PCs have to rush to save their comrades but can continue with the adventure if someone misses a save and I feel comfortable using these types of powers in the game. Otherwise everything would come to a screeching halt to raise up the dead PC.

Hmm, that is actually an interesting idea.

 

[frankthedm]

Bodaks are un-fun.

Don't use them unless the party has been warned and has some way to protect themselves.

Everyone has eyelids. The things hit like crap {13] str; folks who won't close thier damn eyes deserve to die and on that delightfully permanent basis.

Maybe make the gaze 2d4 negative levels, fort save for half. {make them those temp negative levels like enervation to be kid gloved]

 

[pallandrome]

Everyone has eyelids. The things hit like crap {13] str; folks who won't close thier damn eyes deserve to die and on that delightfully permanent basis.

Maybe make the gaze 2d4 negative levels, fort save for half. {make them those temp negative levels like enervation to be kid gloved]

Point of note. If the Bodak wins the init in the surprise round, one cannot close ones eyes or avert ones gaze.

 

[Tetsubo]

Cut the head off a bodak and I think it is dead. I'd check if vorpal kills corporeal undead.

In my game I changed save or die to save or dying (down to -1 hp instead of -10). This way PCs have to rush to save their comrades but can continue with the adventure if someone misses a save and I feel comfortable using these types of powers in the game. Otherwise everything would come to a screeching halt to raise up the dead PC.

I really like this idea... dangerous, dramatic but not "insta-death"...