Why I don't play D&D anymore

[Rystil Arden]

Have you played Shackled City? Our party always gets paranoid and clears out the dungeon without resting (~10+ encounters). Of course, we always stretch ourself thin, but we have crazy gnome Illusionist with Colour Sprays at DC 19 and a wand of CLW, so that helps.

 

[marune]

The assumptions are there so that when DMs change the assumptions (and they should... I'd hate to have 4 equivalent CR encounters every flogging day), the DMs know how much harder they're making it on the PCs.

The assumptions arn't there for you to follow ex cathedra, but rather so you can inflict precicely the amount of pain and suffering on your players as you intend to.

Of course, 4/day of appropriate CR must be the average, not a constant thing each day. However, when the DM breaks that assumption all around the table must know that they are playing a different game that was not playtested.

This is one of the possible side-effects of playing in such a magic-rich setting as Forgotten Realms, but its certainly not required by the rules set. Sure, the game assumes a certain level of magic items in the party, but if you just use that assumption as a starting point and reduce the loot the party has access to, you can more easily judge how much tougher the encounters you have for them are going to be.

It has nothing to do with FR, it's about "kewl buildz" and things like : "If you play a 16th level sorcerer and you're too stupid to have a "cheap" cloak of charisma +6, don't ask why you don't pwn the dragon".

 

[Rystil Arden]

It has nothing to do with FR, it's about "kewl buildz" and things like : "If you play a 16th level sorcerer and you're too stupid to have a "cheap" cloak of charisma, don't ask why you don't pwn the dragon".

While I agree that most sorcerers will want a Cloak of Charisma at least +2 by level 16, I'd say a party can possibly do just as well with any level-appropriate items if they are creative. The thing is, stat-boosters like Cloak of Charisma are actually much more predictable and easier for the GM to balance encounters around than the quirkier magic items because the quirkier magic items can often be all-or-nothing based on how you use them tactically.

 

[marune]

While I agree that most sorcerers will want a Cloak of Charisma at least +2 by level 16, I'd say a party can possibly do just as well with any level-appropriate items if they are creative. The thing is, stat-boosters like Cloak of Charisma are actually much more predictable and easier for the GM to balance encounters around than the quirkier magic items because the quirkier magic items can often be all-or-nothing based on how you use them tactically.

It was not directed against stat-boosting directly, but what I would like my 16th level sorcerer to have is "The lost and legendary cloak of Mag-Tagor the Most Magnificent", a gem-decorated cloak giving +4 Cha, acting as an hat of disguise, but only to appear as a good-looking guy, and some other setting-influenced details.

I already hear some "wealth optimizer" saying : "sell that s* ASAP and buy a straight cloak +6 instead!".

 

[Rystil Arden]

It was not directed against stat-boosting directly, but what I would like my 16th level sorcerer to have is "The lost and legendary cloak of Mag-Tagor the Most Magnificent", a gem-decorated cloak giving +4 Cha, acting as an hat of disguise, but only to appear as a good-looking guy, and some other setting-influenced details.

I already hear some "wealth optimizer" saying : "sell that s* ASAP and buy a straight cloak +6 instead!".

And that's a cool item! I'd love to have that instead of a Cloak of Charisma or a Hat of Disguise, myself.

When I recently pregenned a level 8 character with standard wealth, I gave her an item that acted mechanically like an intelligent shield but had the flavour description of being a living being called a water aeon that perched on her arm and flowed around her to deflect attacks. I paid extra because I thought it was a fun idea

Her Cloak of Charisma item was a bracelet from her father whom she never met (he was a fey who trysted with her mother), and it enhanced her fey heritage and connected her to her father (hence the Cha boost).

 

[marune]

Have you played Shackled City? Our party always gets paranoid and clears out the dungeon without resting (~10+ encounters). Of course, we always stretch ourself thin, but we have crazy gnome Illusionist with Colour Sprays at DC 19 and a wand of CLW, so that helps.

If you want to say that 3E Dungeon isn't all about dungeon crawl, compare the 2E lower planes adventure of Monte Cook with his 3E one. (I accidently read them both one after the other, I was )

 

[Felix]

However, when the DM breaks that assumption all around the table must know that they are playing a different game that was not playtested.

Not playtested by whom? By the WotC R&D department? Maybe. But it's also been played by thousands of folks around the country: it works. Yes, 1 encounter/day is easy for psions, and 6/day is going to drive the casters nuts, but the 4/day assumption at least provides DMs with a starting point - something which 2e did less well.

It has nothing to do with FR, it's about "kewl buildz" and things like : "If you play a 16th level sorcerer and you're too stupid to have a "cheap" cloak of charisma +6, don't ask why you don't pwn the dragon".

This sounds like less of a rules set problem and more of a player problem. "Pwning dragons" indeed.

 

[Rystil Arden]

If you want to say that 3E Dungeon isn't all about dungeon crawl, compare the 2E lower planes adventure of Monte Cook with his 3E one. (I accidently read them both one after the other, I was )

Oh, I wasn't challenging that--I was expressing intrigue that Zimri ran published adventures and rarely had multiple encounters per day.

I guess our group is more paranoid--we don't want to give our enemies time to blink, so we sweep through the dungeon like a tide.

 

[marune]

This sounds like less of a rules set problem and more of a player problem. "Pwning dragons" indeed.

I just grabbed it from another thread, but the "pwn" was added to add a little effect

 

[Felix]

I just grabbed it from another thread, but the "pwn" was added to add a little effect

It's the attitude that's more damaging than the phrasology, though there does seem to be a correlation between the two.

Incidently, whomever in your group thinks the Cloak of Cha +6 is such a great item, ask him if he'd rather have that, or a Cloak of Charisma +4, Gloves of Dexterity +4 and a Ring of Counterspells.