Why I Hate Sorcerors

[Kai Lord]

Re: Re: This makes perfect sense...

A Sorceror relies on WHAT HE IS BORN WITH. His magic doesn't come from Wands and Scrolls, he just has fireballs shooting out of his hands one day. And as he progresses, more spells just pop out of him. Sure, he may learn how to harness his inner workings, but this is all Inward, not Outward knowledge.

Which is why the sorcerer's powers should have been made available in a template, not a class.

 

[Hand of Vecna]

Haste is ineligible for Persistent Spell, and there's no Persistent Metamagic rod in Tome and Blood - is it from another book, or is it a custom item?

Really? Haste can't be made Persistent? *goes to check* Ha-HA, it can't!!!! Must tell DM.....

No idea where he got the Persistent Metamgic Rod from, I'm guessing it was one the player designed himself (Persistent adds 4 spell levels, as does Quicken, and that's in T&B) and got okayed by the DM.

 

[bmcdaniel]

So, dragging this thread back to my original post ...

Does it bother anyone else that sorcerors are more dependent on magic items than wizards?

I'm considering increasing their spells known, btu only allowing them to use spell activation/completion devices for which they actually know the spell.

 

[Tyrrell]

3. Sorcerers can cast any spell they know as many times as they want and can substitute a higher level slot to cast a necessary spell. A good example here is an encounter with a locked door (that the rogue can’t open) – a wizard may know knock but what are the chances he prepared it, even worse what are the chances he prepared it more than once if there is more than one locked door. A sorcerer can cast knock all day long if necessary. There are many other examples similar to the previous.

This example, and I suspect a goodly proportion of the many other examples, fails to take into account the scribe scroll feat. For cost of 6 exp and 75 gp what wizard is not going to have a scroll of knock or two?

 

[IceBear]

I allowed the sorcerer in my campaign to, once per level, learn a new spell at the cost of hitpoints (1hp per spell level). Since magic is in his blood, he's tapping into this to gain the extra knowledge (at the cost of life). Anyway, that character used it twice between levels 2 and 3 (for two extra level 1 spells), but he stopped using it as he felt he was lagging far behind in hitpoints.

I think this would have been unbalanced if he had gotton to a higher level (the campaign ended when he reached 6th level). As was pointed out, the 3rd level spells require tough choices by the sorcerer, and losing 3 or 6 hitpoints for 1 or 2 more 3rd level spells would probably be unbalanced.

IceBear

 

[Li Shenron]

I allowed the sorcerer in my campaign to, once per level, learn a new spell at the cost of hitpoints (1hp per spell level). Since magic is in his blood, he's tapping into this to gain the extra knowledge (at the cost of life). Anyway, that character used it twice between levels 2 and 3 (for two extra level 1 spells), but he stopped using it as he felt he was lagging far behind in hitpoints.

I think this would have been unbalanced if he had gotton to a higher level (the campaign ended when he reached 6th level). As was pointed out, the 3rd level spells require tough choices by the sorcerer, and losing 3 or 6 hitpoints for 1 or 2 more 3rd level spells would probably be unbalanced.

IceBear

There is always the T&B feat "Extra Spell" if you want, although it is a bit expensive - at most one every 3 levels...

As a DM, I have been thinking (but never implemented yet) of giving sometimes, for special occasions such as completing an adventure in a brilliant and elegant way - including roleplay - maybe once or twice in a PC's lifespan a valuable prize, such as a bonus feat, a bonus known spell of any level, or a new class skill.

I think that for the players it would be a relief just to know there there are possibilities for a Sorcerer to get more spells, in case they choose a wrong one

 

[IceBear]

Yeah, but T&B wasn't out when that campaign was running which was why I worked with that player to come up with that ruling. If it was someone else - who wasn't worried about getting killed to the extreme so every hp was precious to him - I might have not been so easy to allow him to do that.

IceBear

 

[Li Shenron]

BTW, IceBear did you notice that basically your character can get 3 HP back with a Toughness, effectively spending one feat to have 3 extra known spells .

 

[Speaks With Stone]

I've recently been struggling with the Sorc/Wiz issue. I'm playing a wizard in one campaign, but we are starting a new one with lots of newbies and I'm left to make a wiz or sorc. Since they are all newbies I said I'd fill whatever roll the party needed. Out of 8 other players, there is not one arcane user at all. I feel I must play an arcane caster, so I thought I'd make a sorceror to be diff from my wiz.

The problem I'm having is not the spell progression, but the skills and the feats. The sorceror will lag behind on metamagic feats, which I don't exactly get. But even worse, the Cha based magic forces my highest stat into a rather unusable area. Int for the wizard enhances lots of skills and provides lots of additional skill points. Cha for the sorceror provides a one-time bonus for influence skills, that I can only enhance through cross class skill development. I only get 2+Int in skills as the sorceror, so I have to go with little/no skills or else place another high stat in Int to have mod/little skills but no dex bonus or con bonus.

It just seems to me that the Sorceror is the one class that gets no secondary (or tertiary) benefits off of its primary stat.

The lack of metamagic makes it harder to personalize the magic. The lack of skill makes it harder to provide secondary roles.
The lack of spell diversity has been expained well enough already.

In exchange for these penalties, the sorceror gets extra spells per day and spontaneous casting. The benefits of spontaneous are good and the extra spells are good (but only a little in comparison to a specialized wizard).

Am I missing out on something. I'd like to try a sorceror (I've played one for a short adventure and loved casting Web at every encounter), but it really looks like the sorceror is entirely defined by a rather small spell selection. Doesn't that make for a bit of a boring role for a party?

 

[IceBear]

BTW, IceBear did you notice that basically your character can get 3 HP back with a Toughness, effectively spending one feat to have 3 extra known spells .

Yeah (though that would have been three first level spells so arguably not TOO overpowering). Ho could have just taken a few extra spells and then taken a level of fighter or barbarian to make up the difference. Like I said, this was right when 3E came out and no one was that familiar with the rules. However, l knew the player and understood that he wanted the extra spells more for a roleplaying concept than for power gaming. If another player in my group had suggested a way of getting more spells (the powergamer/ruleslawyer ) I would not have been so keen on the idea as I know he would have thought of ways to get around the minor hp loss and would have picked the spells for powergaming and not roleplaying.

The other idea I had was to allow the sorcerer to have a outer planar "sponsor". I would have granted him an extra known spell from time to time, but I would have gotting more from the sponsor for roleplay than that one spell

IceBear