Why I refuse to support my FLGS

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

For me, the FLGS (although there really isn't one) is at a distinct disadvantage across the board.

* They can't compete on price (although I am generally price-insensitive, even I would balk at the 300% markup in the original post).
* They don't discount old stuff, even things that have been sitting on their shelf for 5+ years.
* They can't compete on selection. In addition to the obvious inability to stock everything, they frequently under-order new releases, and intentionally or otherwise mislead you when you call to ask.
* They can't compete on convenience -- I can have the product delivered to me a lot easier than schlepping out to the suburbs after work.
* They're a shrinkwrap shop, so they don't care to compete in 'browse-ability' (and with Amazon's 'Look inside' project, there losing ground on that potential advantage).
* I don't play CCGs or CMGs, so the fact that they offer space for that is a disadvantage, as the obnoxious and unbathed definitely detract from the environment, and distract the sales help.

Put a store within relatively easy Metro range where I can browse the books, keep the prices with 25% on most items, seperate the retail space from the losers screaming profanities at each other over something thats happening in their game, and I'm there.

Till then, forget it. As it stands, probably 90% of my purchases in the past year have been on-line, and the remainder were at a normal bookstore (and those were all impulse buys).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Potential unemployment is as valid a reason to support the pro-FLGS position as saving money is a reason to oppose it.

As for:

* They don't discount old stuff, even things that have been sitting on their shelf for 5+ years.

That depends on the store- my locals (Lone Star, Generation X, and Game Chest) do discount old stock.

* They can't compete on selection. In addition to the obvious inability to stock everything, they frequently under-order new releases, and intentionally or otherwise mislead you when you call to ask.

My locals tend to have a broader selection than the big retailers, but can't beat online.

* They can't compete on convenience -- I can have the product delivered to me a lot easier than schlepping out to the suburbs after work.

* They're a shrinkwrap shop, so they don't care to compete in 'browse-ability' (and with Amazon's 'Look inside' project, there losing ground on that potential advantage).

I can browse most (not all) products at my locals- only boxed games and some modules get shrinkwrap. I haven't seen Amazon's "look inside" project, but I can't imagine they'll let you flip through an entire game book.

* I don't play CCGs or CMGs, so the fact that they offer space for that is a disadvantage, as the obnoxious and unbathed definitely detract from the environment, and distract the sales help.

That's a pretty rude stereotype. Not only did I play CCG's (gave up for reasons of expenses) and RPGs, I found the hygene issues between the 2 hobbies falling slightly in favor of the CCG guys- they don't want any dirt on the cardboard. BO & RPGs are an old story. (Though rare.)

 

[amazingshafeman]

Despite my arguments supporting shopping for the better price and my dislike of the Source, I will go to other stores vs. , say, Barnes & Noble for one big reason. B&N generally gets RPG books (what limited supply they carry) almost a full month AFTER the release date. I don't know what the .com is like, but in store equals very slow.

 

[wingsandsword]

I don't think it's all gloom and doom personally. The owner/manager FLGS I go to most told me that they did enough sales in just the first few months of 2005 to keep them open all year. They do great business, and I see gamers come in there from all over the state. There are other LGS, but they are all comic book stores that just happen to sell gaming stuff, or they are more a Collectable Card & Mini store than an RPG place, so other stuff is their Bread & Butter.

I think there may be less room for FLGS than there used to be, since the internet will cut down on their market share, but I don't think they'll go away, far from it.

What can FLGS offer if not price?:
Socialization: Y'know, there are gamers who interact in places other than internet message boards. You can have fascinating conversations (like a thread, but with spoken words) with other gamers at a FLGS. You can meet new gamers, even find new games, and they're probably going to be local, instead of a message board posting that seems cool but then you realize it's on the other side of the continent.

Look Before You Buy: The ultimate review in a way. It's neato to be able to buy something on Amazon for dirt cheap, but it kinda sucks if it turns out to be awful. It's really good to be able to walk into a store, pick up a book, read through it, and pay *gasp* cash for something, instead of buying something based on a name, a sales blurb, and maybe somebody elses reviews, and then waiting for it to arrive.

Used Books: One of the things I really like about a good FLGS is their used book shelf. They buy old and used books for cheap, and resell them for cheap. Now, you never know what you'll find, and you can find some nifty surprises there too. That's how I got my copy of the Imperial Sourcebook for the old d6 SWRPG.

Minis: Not the collectable plastic stuff, the metal stuff. I can't imagine ordering them sight unseen from the web piecemeal. Plastic is nice, but a lot of monsters WotC keeps as rares in the plastic stuff, it would be a lot cheaper to buy a metal mini and paint it (and if you can't paint, I'll bet you can find somebody at a good FLGS who can). For some odd reason, a lot of people who have no problem sinking $30 or $40 for a rare WotC mini for RPG purposes only never think to buy a metal mini for $5 and get it painted for a few more dollars, saving a lot of money. That's service online places aren't likely to give.

Appeal to a wider audience: The funny thing about web sites is, you have to go to them. Not everybody is online, not even gamers, and many people are still a lot more comfortable going into a "brick & mortar" store and paying good old greenbacks for something instead of getting online and using a credit card. People can drive by a FLGS and go inside, wondering what it is, people who would never go online (occasionally at the FLGS I go to, I see confused parents and grandparents who only have the name of a book that their kid wants, and the salesman helps them find it, would they get that service online, or would they even be able to go online, find the right product, and buy it?)

 

[jgsugden]

Attack! MSRP: $29.99.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

So, what you're saying JG, is that the OP's FLGS has marked the price up by $10, and Toys R Us undercut the MSRP by $14?

Hmmmmmm......

I wonder how much it costs to produce each unit of "Attack!"?

 

[amazingshafeman]

Potential unemployment is as valid a reason to support the pro-FLGS position as saving money is a reason to oppose it.

True, and in fact, the exact point that I completely failed to illustrate with my too brief and originally misspelled post, but attempted to get across earlier in the board. Neither point is invalid and it's a completely personal decision.

No matter how much I like a product and the company that produces it, if I'm pigeon holed into shopping at an inconvenient, overpriced, or rude location, I'll probably do without. A businesses survival doesn't just depend on producing a good product. It has to get that product to the consumers. The company that can do that lives.

One point of data missing in the death of the LGS discussion though, is how many NEW stores opened or will open this year? And how many existing stores expanded?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Bad locations don't deserve support, regardless of cause. However, before abandoning a store, let the manager or owner know WHY you're upset. You might be pleasantly surprised. I don't know anyone who is in business to insult customers and lose money.

As for new stores, I know in D/FW its been pretty stable...since the last die-off of a couple of years ago that was partly due to overexpansion and partly due to some ill concieved stores going belly-up. The Games Workshop location at an outlet mall pissed EVERYONE off by undercutting the costs of their products in every other store in D/FW. Those stores dropped GW, and the crowds at the outlet mall (being highly seasonal) stayed away in droves. I don't think they survived.

...and none of the stores I hit are expanding their premises.

 

[Erik Mona]

I refuse to shop at the big LGS in the area (mentioned above along with a few game companies). They wobble between good service and absolutely horrid service about 1:2. I drew the line when they dropped both Dungeon and Dragon mags because "those magazines advertise competitors online." I'd go to the other major store in Minneapolis if it wasn't such a drive.

Which store? It sure would be ironic if it was one that I fed thousands of dollars to as a customer when I lived in Minneapolis for 25 years.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon

 

[amazingshafeman]

I know back home there's a great local shop that I'd buy all of my stuff from if I still lived there. They originally opened as a place for the owner to meet and play with other gamers, as both he and his wife had full time jobs. I don't think they've made money yet, but the local gamers have helped as much as possible, even instituting a pay to play plan for the minis tournaments held there.

What the manager has done, though, to support the store is to open a restaurant next door and name menu items after the more dedicated gamers. Cactus Joe Chilli and the Boolah Burger are all meals close to my heart. The Big Country Special, named after another close friend of mine, is a meal so big that if you eat in 1 hour or less, your next one is free. Best of all, he occasionally holds tournaments wherin the prize is nothing more than helping him to create the next "special" on the menu with the victor's name in there somewhere.

That's helped the store break even and brought enough of the younger gamer's parents in that the restaurant has a serious family community built around. Good food, good atmosphere, and a place to send the kids while socializing? What's not to like?

What he doesn't do is pay extremely low prices for used goods which he then sales high. Nor does he mark up his product very much.

Compare this to the LGS in my present location. Employees that have actually ridiculed me for not knowing some obscure trivia for some anime I've never heard of. Significant mark up on several products. Misleading customers about product availability. A manager that waves off my complaint because he doesn't "hire people that behave in such a base fashion."

In one place, I'll gladly pay a little more to support a company. In another, I won't. Does it mean I don't care about the hobby or the mid tier companies? Not in my mind. It just means that the store front those companies are indirectly presenting me with has more impact on my decision than the product itself.