Why I refuse to support my FLGS

[Glyfair]

If a product is $49.99 SRP, your FLGS can get it in for $25.00 - $26.50, and they need to make that margin to stay open, and provide you with the services that you can get from a FLGS and not a mass-market or electronic outlet.

One thing I've noticed with a lot of people who complain about hobby store prices is they don't look at the whole picture (note, I'm not talking about the people who say they are buying only what saves them money, just those who complain about the prices - and not even all of them).

Tell them that a $20 product had a $10 price from the distributor and they want to know why the store isn't selling it to them cheaper. They believe that $10 is too much "profit" for the store. They don't realize that out of that $10 the store has to pay for power, rent, employees wages, insurance, etc. That $10- isn't "profit."

Also, some of the same people I've heard having long discussion about this will complain about the customer service. They wouldn't support increasing wages to get better customer service, because that would increase the price and that's not acceptable to them. They'll complain about customer service and feel that you should get the same level of customer service from someone making minimum wage and someone being paid above minimum wage. That people who have very good customer service skills generally go for higher paying jobs doesn't cross their mind.

This certainly isn't everyone and I really can't speak to the store's practices, since the conversations I've heard were about stores I hadn't dealt with. However, I've heard several rants that went in that direction.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Toys R Us will not let you game in their store.

Don't want to. And even if I did, I couldn't stand all the screaming and obnoxious CCGs and mini players.

Walmart will not attend the GAMA Trade Show and come back with information about the rest of the year's releases.

Don't need them to. I'll get far better information here.

Amazon will not teach you how to play a game you might like, or help you find other gamers.

Gamedays, websites, and others. I've never gamed with someone I didn't know outside of some sort of pre-existing social relationship, and really don't want to. If stores ran previews of new games, that would be cool, but that's been pretty rare.

Online stores don't let you look in the book before you buy it. They don't have a rack of miniatures available so you can get just the right figure for your character.

Neither does the store near me, or any of the other ones that insist on shrink-wrapping, thus negating one of the few real advantages they might have. However, even if I could look through a book, it would have to be one that they stock. As for mini's, it's a monumental pain in the ass to look through hundreds of minis in their little packages skewered onto racks. I'll look on-line, thanks, where I can search by type, across brands, etc.

 

[woodelf]

Shrug. Whaddever. If it's cheaper, that's where I'm going. I'll save a noble attitude for noble causes.

How about self-interest? Is that sufficiently ignoble of a cause to apply to everyday luxury purchases?

By buying at the cheapest price possible, you're sending the message that the goods are only worth whatever that price is. IOW, you're driving the market price of the goods down, in the long run. Given the wages in the RPG industry, it is safe to say that RPG books are already priced at or below the lowest price that can support the producers. So if prices were to be driven down, across the board (and if the discounters manage to drive the small stores out of business, that will be the effective result), then the discounters would want to lower prices even further to compete with the new baseline, which would start to squeeze the producers more. Meaning ever more of the RPG producers leave the field for better wages (such as videogames, or novels, or even newspaper journalism)--as have the best of the previous generation of game designers, already. Prices are already too low in the RPG market, so by buying exclusively, or even regularly, at discounted prices, you are helping to kill the RPG industry.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that, since you buy enough RPG books that discounting matters [if you only bought one D&D3E PH, and never another RPG book your entire life, the difference between $30 and $20 would matter a lot less], you'd prefer RPG books to be available for sale.

Also, while it is true that the RPG industry will never truly die, at least in our lifetimes, it could become a true cottage industry. IOW, buying at steep discount now could lead to much higher prices in the future. To get an idea of what i mean, compare WotC or WWGS prices to what the current indie-press folks are charging (since they're already operating basically like a cottage industry):
WotC/WWGS: ~$35 for hardcover, full-color, letter-size, 300pp
D20 System publisher: ~$35 for hardcover, B&W, letter-size, 250pp
indie-press: ~$25 for softcover, B&W, digest-size, 150pp

You don't like the first two prices, how're you gonna feel when they all look like the last? Or, extrapolating, when the MSRP for a hardcover, full-color, letter-size, 300pp RPG book is more like $60 or $70? (and that's in current dollars, not adjusting for inflation.)

Also on the self-interest front: there is a link between prices of goods and wages. And i don't just mean the wages of the people who produced those goods, but the wages of everyone. By always buying at the lowest price possible, you are contributing to keeping wages--including your own--low.

 

[woodelf]

I exclusively buy either online (if I can be patient) or in a major chain store (Borders, for example) if I'm feeling impatient. The price differential between those outlets and a so-called FLGS is simply too great for me to patronize the latter.

What sorts of discounts are you finding? IME, i can reliably save ~10%, maybe 15%, by buying online. That's when i want to buy what i want to buy, and when i want to buy it. If i'm willing to just buy whatever they feel like offering on clearance special and the like, or only what shows up on Overstock.com, then i can probably get 50% off--but there's a really good chance that what i want won't be available that way. Frex, i'd been watching online for a discounted copy of The Riddle of Steel for nearly 2 years, with no success (at any level of discount) before i happened to stumble onto a used copy (in meatspace).

IMHO--and i'm fully aware that this doesn't necessarily have any bearing for anyone who isn't me--15% isn't worth the hassle or consequences. Honestly, if it's worth 85% of MSRP, it's probably worth 100% of MSRP--rarely does the personal value threshhold fall in such a narrow margin. I save discount purchases for 50% off, or better--for those things that i simply think aren't worth the asking price (not because of poor quality, or because i'm short of money, but because they are designed for a different consumer). IOW, precisely the segment of the RPG market that, if it were to disappear completely, i wouldn't be terribly disappointed. If i really like it, i consider it the ethical thing to reward the creators appropriately--and they've told me what they think is appropriate. I also consider it the selfish thing to reward them as htey've requested, so that they stay in business and make more cool stuff that i want.

So does this make me a bad person? I don't feel bad. I agree with hexgrid -- if the small business game-store owners want to survive in this day and age of online retailing and Wal-Mart, then they need to find other ways to compete. Because they cannot compete on price.

I can't speak to any particular store you've been in, but those i've been in have found a way to compete: browsing, knowledgeable staff, gamer connections, gaming space.

oh, and on wages, working conditions, community impact, and political behavior. Call me nuts, but i consider not giving my money to companies that don't do business in ways i like an important goal. And there are things other than high price that constitute "doing business in ways i don't like".

 

[woodelf]

Why don't FLGS owners work together to pool their buying power and get these kinds of deals, and then sell at reduced prices to more favorably compete with the online and non-niche marketers?

If 1000 FLGS each ordered 20 units, then they, too, could sell at lower prices, and combined with the insane levels of customer loyalty that they routinely receive, they should be able to knock off the Big Corporate competetion.

Ozmar the Amateur Economist

They already do. It's call distributors. Problem is, while you can pool the buying power to get something from the manufacturer, you still have the duplicated costs of physically getting it to the 1000 FLGSs, and staffing the 1000 FLGSs, and paying the heating and electricity for 1000 FLGSs, and so on. Economies of scale are real, and a pooling can only overcome those that the pool specifically addresses. Now, if those 1000 FLGSs all pooled their resources to have 50, larger, locations, and a combined staff pool, and so on, then we'd really see a change. But i'm guessing the commute, for both the staff and the customers, would kill that idea.

 

[woodelf]

It's easy for people with money to blow on gaming books/cards/minis to critisize others for buying at Toys-R-Us or Amazon instead of a FLGS. It's hard to support a FLGS when you don't even make enough money to buy your own house and you still have to pay rent and live with roommates.

Part of why you can't afford a house is due to depressed wages. Part of why wages are depressed is due to a consumer mentality of "as cheap as is possible, regardless of the consequences", which forces production and service costs down. The union ideal of banding together to help everyone applies accross disciplines, too--it's basically where the idea of minimum wage came from. Or, to put it another way: if you're not willing to pay the higher price required to support higher wages in industries you get goods or services from, why should anyone else be willing to support you getting higher wages for your goods or services?

 

[woodelf]

But let's say I want to buy the DMG II, and the small store was selling it at MSRP ($39.95) while Walmart.com had it for 15% less. What incentive could the small store offer me that is worth $6? And just appealing to my love of D&D is not enough.

Really? You mean the threat of no more new D&D products, or significantly-higher-priced D&D products, isn't enough incentive to pay that extra $6? Or do you mean something else by "love of D&D"?

But then, i guess i've never been a comparison shopper. And, no, it's not because i'm rolling in the dough--i've only gotten into 5 digits of income 3 years in my entire life. I go to a store that i trust and think does a good job and therefore i want to continue to exist, and buy whatever it is if it's affordable, and don't if it isn't. The fact that there might be a place that has it cheaper just doesn't enter into the equation, so long as the price i find it for is reasonable (by my standards). And if it isn't to be found for a price i consider reasonable, and it's not food, etc., i do without, or wait until i have more money. Sure, i compare for big purchases, but, mostly, i decide what something is worth to me, and shop until i find something beneath that threshhold. Then i stop, because it's as cheap or cheaper than the value i put on the good, so there's no need to find it even cheaper.

Most gamers on this board are probably too young to remember when Video Stores used to be all small-business Mom & Pop operations. Now, it's all UberMegaBusterWood franchise stores, with the same selection everywhere you go.

Doing my part to stop that trend. My money doesn't go to Blockbuster or Hollywood--i'll do without before i'll rent a video there. Of course, the fact that i (1) am not much of a video renter (probably <1/mo, over the long haul) and (2) live in a city with at least 3 thriving independent video stores, all of which have far better selection than any chain store i've ever been in, probably helps with that.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

I can't speak to any particular store you've been in, but those i've been in have found a way to compete: browsing, knowledgeable staff, gamer connections, gaming space.

I've seen some also get into area that are compatible with the gamer crowd. Selling genre DVDs (hong kong action, anime, sci-fi, fantasy, sci-fi TV showson DVD), Manga, graphic novels, comics, game fiction, board games, ... They also sell a wide selection of snack food back in the gamer table section at barely higher than a convenience store's prices. Gamers and snack food go together like... well, you know!

My FLGS put up a shelf devoted used pulp-era dime-store books. i.e. Tarzan, John Carter, Pellucidar, etc. They sold through them pronto.

If gamers talk about it at their tables, stocking it could be worth looking into.

 

[Prince of Happiness]

I had a question about who handles the distro for gaming books? Is Diamond the 800lb. gorilla on this block as well? Could part of the pricing/availability issue be solved by setting up a more gaming specific independent distributor? Or no?

 

[Glyfair]

I had a question about who handles the distro for gaming books? Is Diamond the 800lb. gorilla on this block as well? Could part of the pricing/availability issue be solved by setting up a more gaming specific independent distributor? Or no?

IIRC, Alliance is the major distributor (both Diamond and Alliance have the same parent company). The company deals solely with gaming and, from what my FLGS's tell me, has no real interaction with Diamond.