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Why I refuse to support my FLGS

fredramsey

First Post
Gentlegamer said:
Let me ask you all advocating buying from local shops: do you also support buying only books and RPG materials manufactured in the US (if you're American)?

Nope, they don't have to be.

Different motivation there, though. I choose to buy from the FLGS because of my own, selfish reasons, if you boil it down. I want the conveinence that shop provides me. So the reason is not quite as altruistic as it may first seem. It has nothing to do with compassion or nobility. It's all about me, baby.

;)
 

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Rykion

Explorer
GlassJaw said:
I'd be willing to bet that a large portion of the small publishers get most of their revenue from the internet and not the small stores. Most of the LGS I've been to don't really carry many products from small publishers.

The one and two person operations that rely on PDFs and print on demand will probably not be effected, but the small companies that actually publish boardgames, strategy games, and printed books will be. In my area at least 2 local gaming stores do carry a good supply of smaller companies' goods. The local chain stores stock almost exclusively Wizards of the Coast books. Without the LGS the only market for small publishers will be online and that will make an already niche market even smaller.
 

fredramsey

First Post
woodelf said:
And if we had a true free market, that'd probably be true. We don't. Too many of the large players in the market are involved in controlling the information that everyone has about the market. As a result, big companies and little businesses don't play by the same rules--much moreso than just things like economies of scale would account for.

Absolutely.

And you don't have to be in the free market at all if you're an airline ;)
 

buzz

Adventurer
Let me preface my comments by mentioning that I organize the ENWorld Chicago Gameday, which is held at Games Plus in Mt. Prospect, IL, one of the best stores in the US. The event brings anywhere from 30-50 people together for a day of gaming and shopping three times a year. Older gamers sometimes bring their kids. Basically, I do something to support a good store and the hobby.

fredramsey said:
While this is not an exact example of why you should support your FLGS, it's close. It's not landing wheels, it's dice. It's impulse buys. It's leafing through the game book. It's being able to look at and buy non-d20 stuff, or d20 stuff from smaller publishers. It's about being able to buy a boardgame that We-Be-Toys would never think of selling.
Making an impulse buy online is something I can do quite easily from home, and the low prices are an added incentive. Leafing through the game book is sort of moot now; most companies who have a clue offer extensive previews, and I can pour over them at my lesiure, rather than fit all my browsing into the time I have when I am at a store. Non-d20 products and small press products are much easier to find online than in a store.

Let's also add that the collective online gaming community can offer me far more and far more insightful opinions than the staff of the average game store; we're simply talking more available brainpower here. The online retailer also doesn't require me to get up, get dressed, and drive to a physical location in order to make the purchase or do the browsing. And speaking of being able to physically handle the product before buying, there's something to be said for not being at the mercy of a store's manhandled inventory. This is one of the main reasons I rarely buy books (gaming or non) from brick-and-mortar retailers anymore.

Honestly, I find it very difficult to fault people for making decisions based on price. That's pretty much how we buy just about eveyrthing else. How many people here will pay more for, say, gasoline in order to patronize a particular seller, barring some perk program?

I also don't see the value in appealing to people's sense of "community" or whatever in an effort to get them to patronize LGSs. Joe Gamer, like Joe Public, isn't looking that far ahead, and shouldn't necessarily have to. Gaming is a luxury, not a charity.

Does the hobby need FLGSs to survive? I don't think so.

(Then why do you run Gamedays, buzz?)

Does the hobby need a means for players to get together, form communities, and be there to introduce new people to the hobby, particularly in a social, out-in-the-public way?

Heck yeah! The question is, does the FLGS need to serve that purpose? My answer: not necessarily.

First off, I see no reason why a Wal-Mart-like gaming megastore couldn't serve the same sort of function. People love to complain about Starbucks, but the fact is that Starbucks locations are generally very comfortably-decorated, clean, "homey" shops that serve tasty drinks and treats. They actively encourage people to just hang out in the store, chat, read a book, or sit quietly, regardless of whether they've bought anything. Big n' Corporate doesn't have to mean crappy and impersonal.

Big bookstores like Border's and B&N figured this out, too. When I was a lad, the local bookstores in my town (Kroch's, Crown, both out of business *hint*) were like any other store: lots of shelves and aisles, somewhat okay selection of product. What does any good bookstore look like now? Like a large version of the classic, hole-in-the-wall used book shop: tons of books and lots of places to sit down. Most have Starbucks built into them, too.

I.e., when you can't compete on price, you need to compete on some other aspect. If what the FLGS is really contributing to the hobby is networking and community, not selection and price, then it needs to focus on the former.

And if not the FLGS, then the publishers. If companies (like WotC) have the wherewithal to have delegates who do demos at stores, they can do demos at other venues as well.

(Let's also not neglect to mention the online community. My renewed interest in gaming with the release of 3e, the three gaming groups I'm in, and my involvement with Gameday all had the 'Net as a starting place.)

And if, you, as a gamer, care about the hobby community, you'd probably be contributing to it more by organizing events, running demos, offering to teach an RPG class at the local community college, giving RPGs as gifts to potential gamers, and making sure a PHB ends up in your local library than you would by haranguing people to support their LGS. (Especially given how dismal the economy has been; I can't blame people for wanting to save a few bucks when they can, even on luxury items.)

That said, if you have a FLGS that you feel gives you benefits worth paying full price, by all means patronize the place.

I think the simple fact is that markets change. To stay viable, businesses need to change right along with them. They need to get creative. The RPG hobby, like many other things, has been transformed by the 'Net. The natue of the LGS, if it is to survive, needs to transform as well.
 

Joshua Randall said:
But let's say I want to buy the DMG II, and the small store was selling it at MSRP ($39.95) while Walmart.com had it for 15% less.

fredramsey said:
I just don't think Wal-Mart is going to carry Burning Wheel, or CoC, for that matter.

DungeonmasterCal said:
No Burning Wheel, but CoC...yup.

I don't know where everyone who quotes Wal-Mart D&D prices are located, but I'm in Louisville which is not only in the Bible Belt but is the official headquarters for 3 religions. Our Wal-Mart's do not sell D&D, not in the toy department nor the book area. Oh, occassionally some of the larger minis will show up in the toy area but it is not a regular occurrence.

You cannot count on Wal-Mart to sell you something if you are not the majority. They cowtow to the loudest group with the most dollars to spend and if that group feels that D&D is "evil" then Walmart won't sell it. Same goes for music & entertainment (CDs and DVDs sold at our walmarts are the sanitized versions). Even if your store currently sell it, The Waltons can easily make it a corporate wide policy and you'll have no means of redress or expressing displeasure.

Gamers are a niche market; we do not have the market force to influence any major chain. Small stores are the only ones where we matter.

Having said that:
Above all else, if your LGS is not friendly or helpful point out to the owner that service is the only reason you shop local over Amazon and if there service continues to suck your dollars will leave the area.

For those who's budget is too small to let you buy at MSRP visit your LGS to see if they have what you want used at a price you can afford. I was a poor college student for a long time and I lived on used gaming supplies. They may not make the store as much money but it's still profit.
 

buzz

Adventurer
BelenUmeria said:
Amazon is the reason that WOTC now sells 160 page books for the price of the 192 page books. Paper, while expensive, has not risen that much in the last few years. So keep buying from Amazon. You're only going to continue to increase the price of books.
I'm not sure I understand how the two have anything to do with each other. What if it's just WotC deciding that RPGs have been underpriced for a long time (as some contend), and that it's been a tough year for the industry as a whole? Or that, if everything they do for D&D has to be hardcover, the 160pp format for lesser titles is more viable?
 

Rykion

Explorer
kigmatzomat said:
I don't know where everyone who quotes Wal-Mart D&D prices are located, but I'm in Louisville which is not only in the Bible Belt but is the official headquarters for 3 religions. Our Wal-Mart's do not sell D&D, not in the toy department nor the book area. Oh, occassionally some of the larger minis will show up in the toy area but it is not a regular occurrence.

I've never seen an RPG at Wal-Mart either. People are mostly talking about Wal-Mart's online store.
 

scourger said:
I think I'll keep bugging my FLGS for Tour of Darkness rather than ordering it online as I could have for the past 6 weeks.

If your FLGS is that nonresponsive are they still considered Friendly? Sucky stores do not deserve repeat patronage simply because they are a niche market.

Ask them when their next shipment is due to arrive. Tell them if Tour of Darkness isn't on it then you'll buy it from Amazon and have it in a couple of days. Remind them you first asked them for it six weeks ago and that you've been patient.

There could be a reason; One book I wanted was unavailable from 3 different distributors b/c someone at Walden Book miskeyed an order and wound up with the bulk of the region's allocation. The FLGS was working on buying the excess from Walden but rather than making me wait told me which Walden had them so I could get it immediately.
 

Rykion said:
I've never seen an RPG at Wal-Mart either. People are mostly talking about Wal-Mart's online store.

Ahh, I missed that part. But it doesn't change the fact Sam Walton Jr. could decide D&D is evil at any time and stop all distribution of it. Or worse, require "sanitized" D&D. Gack!
 

Glyfair

Explorer
GlassJaw said:
I'd be willing to bet that a large portion of the small publishers get most of their revenue from the internet and not the small stores. Most of the LGS I've been to don't really carry many products from small publishers.

I was talking with one of my FLGS owners yesterday. Recently a fulfillment house went out of business (one of the companies that individual game companies use to sell to distributors, because the distributors don't like dealing with small companies).

Apparently, this has left most of the companies that dealt with this company in severe finiancial difficulties. I don't know if we'll lose any companies by this, but a number are certainly on the bubble. If they "got most of their revenue from the internet" than this shouldn't be that more than a brief problem.

Now, maybe these companies should be using the internet more. Maybe these are mostly companies that don't have quality materials and the industry would be served by them going out of business. I don't have any names, so I couldn't even give my opinion.
 

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