Why I refuse to support my FLGS

hexgrid said:
This is how I see it. Supporting the local game store is considered some sort of moral imperative, but why? The game store will have what what I'm looking for maybe 20% of the time. Internet retailers will have what I'm looking for 100% of the time.

If the business model of the FLGS doesn't make sense in this day and age, why shouldn't we let it die out?

If the only purpose the FLGS serves is as a place for gamers to gather, well, we should find a different place to gather.

The pencil and paper rpg industry will die without the local game stores. Your local game store orders from the distributors. The big orders the distributors make keep this part of the gaming industry alive. No publisher's business model will allow them to think they can print something based on amazon dot com sales alone.

Note: I own and operate a FLGS.

Thanks,
Rich
 

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Sebastian Francis said:
So I wanted to buy the game Attack! and checked out my FLGS. They had it for $39.99 (US funds).

Then I went to Toys R Us. They also had Attack!. For $13.99.

FLGS, piss off. :(

***
Side rant: What's all this nonsense about "supporting" our FLGS, anyway? What are they, charities? Support, my ass. If I want to give "support" to something it will be my family, my friends, my church, my co-workers, or my local charities. Dear FLGS, you're a *business*, for frick's sake. Support *yourself* and stop whining. And while you're at it, stop jacking up the price of Attack! and other games.

"Oh Lord, how should we piss off?"

FLGS owner here. I didn't even consider stocking Attack! as it is defined by the industry as a 'mass markets' product. I don't have the price handy that I would have been charged for Attack! by my distributors, but here is another example:

Heroscape

You can buy the Heroscape starter set at Walmart for $39.99 or so. My distributor would charge me $38.50 for the same set. Throw in shipping and I am buying the set for more than Walmart sells it.

Therefore I don't stock Heroscape.

I used to think (before I opened my own store) that the game store I frequented in Virginia was ripping people off for Hasbro's Epic Duels until I found out how much they were paying for it.

Some FLGS make a business decision to stock the games anyway and charge more for the games than Walmart does. This can make sense at times as Walmart and company will sometimes only stock the initial release of a game then never stock it again.

Beyond your side rant, I don't see that you asked any FLGS owners why the prices were higher in the FLGS. Maybe some research in advance of making a universal condemnation of a business would be in order?

Thanks,
Rich
 


BelenUmeria said:
I am only saying that people should give a store a chance.

That's not all you're saying. You've also explicitly blamed Amazon for the killing the d20 Star Wars line, accused on-line purchasers of contributing to the rising costs of WotC products, and soothsaid that further on-line purchasing will ultimately lead to D&D being converted to a collectible miniatures game.
 

rgard said:
The pencil and paper rpg industry will die without the local game stores.

No it won't. You can order print books from a lot (or most) of publishers directly. If LGSs went out of business the industry would change, not die. Its up to the LGS's to change and evolve with the industry. I'm not saying thats wrong or right, bad or good, fair or unfair. But i do think its necessary. Or at least inevitable.
 

BelenUmeria said:
I am only saying that people should give a store a chance.

I don't think anyone is gainsaying that are they? I sure am not. If anyone has a FLGS that is great, i think they do have an obligation to shop there. Not because of the health of the industry, since i don't at all believe that LGSs and industry health are inexorably linked, but because having that kind of local assest is worth cultivating.

I'd love to have a decent LGS around here. I've given my LGS countless chances. I just got sick of doing it. Especially when financial or convenience concerns dictate that i can do better elsewhere to begin with.
 

PJ-Mason said:
No it won't. You can order print books from a lot (or most) of publishers directly. If LGSs went out of business the industry would change, not die. Its up to the LGS's to change and evolve with the industry. I'm not saying thats wrong or right, bad or good, fair or unfair. But i do think its necessary. Or at least inevitable.

We need to look at how the print industry works.

Let's start with this:

1. The publishers have to print x number copies of a given title in order to break even. A greater number than x is needed in order to make a profit.

2. Distributors place orders in advance for the title (and possibly the large bookstore chains.) The publisher uses these pre-order numbers plus past sales history in order to determine whether they publish the title.

3. Distributors sell to FLGSs and some sell on line directly to individuals. Not sure about borders and the like, but they may buy directly from the publisher.

4. Take the FLGSs out of the equation and the publisher loses a large number of sales that would have been used to justify publishing the title (the distributor now has no customers and doesn't order the title and files for Chapter 13.)

Publishers would be able to stay in business if they could be reasonably confident that the direct sales, internet distributors and Borders sales could sustain them. They could lose it all on one title that the above didn't decide to buy.

Take the FLGSs out of the equation and you change everybody else's business model. That kind of change will destroy some of the smaller publishers at minimum and I suspect many of the larger ones as well.

Thanks,
Rich

My edit: I didn't like how my first line sounded so I changed it.
 
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PJ-Mason said:
<SNIP>

I'd love to have a decent LGS around here. I've given my LGS countless chances. I just got sick of doing it. Especially when financial or convenience concerns dictate that i can do better elsewhere to begin with.

Maybe, just maybe I'll get to Fulton someday and open another store there! Could be several decades, and cost countless lives...joking aside...sorry to hear your (F)LGS lacks the 'F'.

Things I do here:

1. Large gaming area. Includes tables and seating for around 30 people to game. Takes up half my floor space.

2. I vacuum the place and empty the trash cans every night. I clean the restroom 2x a day. I worked in a restaurant in a past life and hate filthy restrooms.

3. Clean the glass display counters as needed...usually 4-5 times a day.

4. I have a painting station at the back of the gaming area. I have one each of all the Games Workshop paints for the customers to use if they want to paint their minis. I initially provided paint brushes, but those disappeared so the customers provide their own now.

5. Frequent customer discount. They don't have to pay for it. I give them a card after they make several purchases. I'll have to codify this someday, but for now I am relying on my memory to identify the frequent customers.

6. I do 10% off on any movie tie-ins. Star Wars minis and books are now 10% off as well as Marvel and DC Heroclix while the movies are playing.

7. I don't mind the customers reading the books before buying them. No shrinkwrapping here. I don't let them take the books to the gaming area though. That said, I have had a customer or two get angry when I told them they couldn't take a store (stock) copy of the players handbook to the gaming area to use while gaming.

8. We run tournaments for the various games.

9. We've done minis painting clinics that are free to attend...just bring your own mini and use my paints.

The store has been open 3 months now. I'm not near profitable yet, but doing better than my business plan had me doing after 3 months. I have a strong core customer base who
are repeat business.

So I'd like to think this is more than just a retail outlet and more of a Friendly LGS/gaming experience.

Thanks,
Rich
 

rgard said:
We need to look at how the print industry works.
Take the FLGSs out of the equation and you change everybody else's business model. That kind of change will destroy some of the smaller publishers at minimum and I suspect many of the larger ones as well.

Thats my point, though. It will change how a lot of publishers craft their business model, but it isn't going to kill the paper and pencil industry. Evolution of society is the only thing thats going kill the P&P industry and thats somewhere in the future.

I think small publishers have either already crafted a business model that lets them survive alongside the big boys and high volume requirements or at least they acknowledge that they are "rolling the dice" and that bankruptcy is a possibility thats only a moment away. That will not likely change no matter what happens in the industry. Thats a universal business truth. A lot of small publishers will go online or skip the middle men (in fact a lot of them already do). Remember, a game publisher could skip the distribution and LGSs, mark up their prices to increase their current profit rates and still give the customers a cheaper product, or have less volume concerns and charge the current rates. A lot of them do it out of good will support for distributors and LGSs, not because they'll fall apart if they do (though some think they will). Especially the small ones.

Btw, i hope you are not taking this personal. If you run your GS as friendly, informative place that has room for gaming and all the other things that make a great FLGS what it is supposed to be, than i am all for you staying in business and the local gamers keeping you that way. Truly i am.

Edited: a bunch of typos. sigh. You know...if ENWorld created some sort of text editor, i might defintely buy a membership! ;)
 
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However, I don't see any discussion on why customers (other than a select few in here) feel that buying online and saving some money is worth more than paying full retail at a LGS.


GOOD LGS advantages over online (any of the below may not apply to a bad LGS):

1) When I need something NOW- I know I can call and have it within an hour.
2) Sales staff who know me personally will approach me with news of changes in the landscape- a certain product about to hit, another about to be discontinued, a limited edition _______ available only to 50 people in a city or state or country...
3) Face-to-face interaction with gamers in my area that allows me to find new players and new games...or avoid bad ones.
4) Improved awareness of the local legal environment re: RPGs. That is- who in your area is maligning gamers based on misinformation or stereotypes? Its a topic that shows up on the boards occasionally, but in the game stores, you know QUICKLY when a gamer has been accused of "corrupting the youth with their satanic hobby."
5) Gamer Oasis. The one place you can GUARANTEE not being judged for participating in the hobby is the place that supports the hobby.


$35-$40 dollars is very costly for a single book. I'd rather not be faced with the choice of buying either groceries or a game book.

1) Complain to the publisher, not the retailer. They set the price, and they also grant the discounted prices to places like Wal-Mart. The LGS can't compete with Wal-Mart if their cost is higher than Wal-Mart's price.
2) If your budget is so tight that a $5-15 price differential is the difference between games and groceries, you need to stop buying the books altogether until you get a better job.

3.) Although I don't know how the taxes argument arose since it wasn't in my post, I've never disputed the hidden costs of running a business. However, hardworking consumers also pay taxes. I lose over 28% of my income in taxes every year, further limiting my purchasing power. Hence, I am not very sympathetic towards this point in your argument.

Actually, I'll somewhat side with you here. Ad valorem taxes (year-end taxes on inventory) occur in almost every retail industry. The solution is to SELL OFF OLD INVENTORY (unless its a hot collectible)- even if you take a short-term loss on it. This is done in 2 industries I'm very familiar with (car sales and gems/jewelry). First- it limits the number of times a product is taxed to once- additional taxation of inventory just adds to its cost to the retailer and cuts into the profits anyway. Second, product that doesn't sell takes away from space that could be used to stock product that WILL sell. Old inventory is a HUGE opportunity cost, and is one of the ones most controllable by the retailer.

One of my LGSs- Lone Star Comics (LSC)- routinely uses discount bins and warehouse sales to clear old stock. Because of that, I was able to buy 3 2Ed PHBs for $5 each...and this was before 3Ed was even on the horizon! They did it to avoid inventory taxes. To keep those books and sell them at full price would have cost them additional taxes (raising the effective cost the retailer paid for it) and cost LSC the opportunity to sell other, hotter game product. LSC also discounted Chainmail 50% when it was discontinued in favor of the D&D Miniatures game...MINE! ALL MINE!

Is it cool to be able to walk into a store and find OOP games? Yes...you never know what you're going to find or what you'll need to replace. But each old game product that sits on the shelves isn't contributing to the store's bottom line.

4.) I've easily spent thousands of dollars at local shops in the past because I believe in supporting the local economy. I just cannot afford to do it anymore. I don't make a lot of money and I simply have too much debt to shop at a non-competitive, not to mention unfriendly, shop. My budget is simply too tight. When I can afford to be more free with my income, I will.
-The fact that you and others here, want gaming consumers to recognize the plight of
struggling small businesses is laudable. Just don't forget the fact that many of the people you are trying to convice are struggling to make ends meet as well.

The best way I've found to save money AND support LGS's (only the good ones!) is not to have the LGS's form co-ops- even then, they can't compete with the big retailers- but to have GAMERS form co-ops. Instead of EVERYONE buying their own Core books to every game system the group plays, everyone in the group pitches in to buy a set (possibly with an extra PHB or 2). Deserving LGS's keep their doors open, and gamers without money still have access to everything they need.
 
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