Why I refuse to support my FLGS

[pogre]

All the negative and positive reviews of game store staff has started me thinking about what type of person I should hire when I get to the point of hiring.

This discussion is helping me.

Thanks,
Rich

One nightmare I have heard often repeated involves employee theft or colluding with thieves. In an industry with slim margins, theft loss is even more serious. I think the only solutions available are: 1. some sort of surveillance system; or 2. modified profit sharing to give the employee an interest in making sure the store is not ripped off.

Good luck,

pogre

 

[Elephant]

An aside to the Minnesota gamers. Some have mentioned the Source and Phoenix. Has anyone checked out Phantasy in Shakopee, Village Games in Anoka or Unicorn Games in Woodbury? I am a big fan of Village Games. I have noticed some of the problems mentioned in this thread with the Source. I am mostly indifferent to them I have tried to run demos there but to no avail as they are crowded.

Bill

I don't really like Unicorn Games. The owner kind of creeps me out, the store has a faintly disinviting vibe to it, and I've had a bad experience there.

About a year ago, an RPGA game had been scheduled for a Saturday, and I went there with a friend to get in on the game (we were curious about what RPGA play was like). When we got there, the game was MIA. After we waited a good half hour, the owner finally came over to us and gave us a -and-bull story about why the game wasn't happening (something about the GM moving it to a friend's house or something lame like that). As recompense for the inconvenience, he offered a slight discount on the newly-released Eberron book. No thanks - in exchange for my convenience, you try to get me to buy something? Forget it.

Oh, and the store is in Oakdale, not Woodbury

 

[woodelf]

I don't think anyone said supporting or not supporting your LGS is or isn't stupid. However, I've gotten a tone from some of the "supporters" that those who don't support their LGS are killing the hobby or some nonsense. Some of the posts sound a little "holier than thou" is all (IMO).

I don't think you're killing the hobby if you don't support the LGS. And i don't advocate supporting a crappy LGS. I'm saying that if you get any value out of the FLGS, you should support it proportionately. and I claim that most people are getting more value out of it than they are factoring into the equation.

 

[Victrix]

Fascinating thread. I have to say, out of all of the gaming stores I've visited, I've only encountered a *tiny* handful of people at any of them that I was comfortable spending time with, or interacting on any social level. The bulk were of the fat/greasy/unkempt/unwashed/loud/obnoxious type. This may not be a popular statement, as it seems dangerously close to a rude stereotype, but it's the flat truth. I can't get several of my good friends to go near the stores (and truth be told, I don't much enjoy going there myself for the most part), and myself and my friends *are* self avowed geeks of various sorts (be it computer games, cars, music, or something else). The people that I've encountered at the gaming stores were largely so unappealing that I would be embarassed to have my girlfriend drop by.

So that's one major problem. The other is obviously price (which has been gone over in detail in this thread, so I won't harp on it much). I can buy the three 3.5 core books on [online store of choice] for ~$60, or I can buy them at LGS for $120. Similar price differences for other products. For me at least, the intangible added value that the local store can add simply isn't there. Without a different staff, clientele, and atmosphere, I'm not going to spend my money or my time there, and I'm not going to bring my friends there either.

This conversation reminds me of similar discussions one of my friends told me about, with the US arcade industry dying, and arcade fighting game fans flocking to online sites and organizing regional tournaments to keep playing (eg, www.shoryuken.com). The parallels are striking - they complained about smelly, dark, unpleasant arcades staffed by incompetent employees and frequented by rather unsavory types, and the industry was killed by more cost effective versions of the same games that could be comfortably played at home. The similarities only run so far, but I definitely don't see roleplaying croaking completely because LGS are going out of business for one reason or another. Small niche markets with intensely loyal customers tend to stick around in one form or another, and the internet is empowering to communities of any sort.

I genuinely wish I had a nice local gaming store to frequent, but for me, it's a mythical beast. I'll probably just keep ordering games online and playing them with friends.

 

[GlassJaw]

and I claim that most people are getting more value out of it than they are factoring into the equation.

Honestly, if I never walked into a LGS again it wouldn't matter to me at all. I don't need them. I have ebay, Amazon, The War Store, etc. to get anything I need for both RPG and mini/painting supplies.

Actually, I need craft stores like Michael's more than I need a LGS. Nevermind books and stuff, have you ever bought brushes or paint or primer at a LGS? Yikes. The price difference is insane, especially considering you need to buy things like that over and over again. You only need to buy a book once.

 

[PJ-Mason]

Now, personally, i think that RPGs won't die, at least not while this generation of gamers is alive. But that's not the same as saying that there will "always be a business to serve their gaming needs". That's just foolish talk--

Not hardly. There will always be Indie pubs that do it for love, rather than a living. They will always be there in some form. You'll get maybe more places like RPGNOW (a mix of full and part timers...mostly part timers right now). Maybe just local game publishers that serve their neighbors and maybe the next few towns over (not needing massive shipments or delivery systems). The future of the P&P (since the future of internet publishing is now) industry may be a company that has their own printing press maybe. Who could possibly predict all the permutations. So i say it again, there will always be an industry, it just may not look like the one we have now. Which freaks out a few people, especially those who are currently trying to make a living in present system. Which i understand and appreciate. Its all speculation at this point though, since the current P&P industry setup isn't going out of business just yet.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

The store you describe definitely sounds like one not worth supporting. The practice of buying goods at auction for resale is pretty common. Most used car dealers, flea markets, and many antique/curio stores get some or all of their goods for sale in this manner. There really isn't anything unethical about it unless the goods are not sold as "used" if they happen to be.

I know, I've been told that before. I have no idea if he advertised them as used or not though. I don't think he did, they were in basically new condition. I was told by one of my friends "sure, he'll sell it for full price, they are basically new and probably a lot cheaper than his wholesalers".

Then again, he sells off all his free samples from conventions he goes to as well. Says it pays for the trips.

 

[Dristram]

I think I'm noticing something

After reading all these posts, I think I've noticed something that is causing this rift between gamers.

Some gamers like, and prefer to shop for their gaming stuff at a store that specializes in their hobby. They don't want to see their game store(s) go away. And some want them so much that they'll even buy from less professional game stores. When they walk into a game store, it's like the preverbal "kid in a candy store" feeling to them. I’ll call these “game store fans”. I’m one of these types

Other gamers couldn't care less if they have a local game store because without one, they can still get their gaming stuff online or big book stores. They don't get any real thrill out of walking into a store where they are surrounded by the games they like. And they don’t have any real need for game space (because they play at home) or need to find gamers (because they have their longstanding gaming group already). Also, the online stores, with their discounts, have devalued RPGs (and other games), lessening the value-add of a local game store.

Most game store owners are “game store fans” that are trying to live their dream of running their own game store. Many assumed most gamers are like them and since the proliferation of on-line stores, are surprised at just how many aren’t, which worries them. Other “game store fans” see the struggle their beloved game stores face and wish more gamers would be like them and may get frustrated that they aren’t, because if all gamers would choose to patronize their local game shop, they’d flourish.

Thus, the conflict we see here.

I think I may be rambling now, so I think that’s it. How does it sound?

One last observance. Not all owners of game stores care about the gaming hobby. Some game store owners do what they do because they think they can make money at it. I think a lot of these types were created during the booms of Magic and Pokemon, and then supported by the smaller Yu-Gi-Oh! and Clix crazes. I'd hasten to guess a lot of them used to be owners of baseball card shops and saw gaming as a way to stay in business. They’re always on the lookout for the “next big thing” and an "angle" on how to turn a quick buck. They're chasing the gaming "fads". Unfortunately, gamers, particularly RPGers, don’t feel very welcome in those kinds of stores because RPGs are not of much interest to these kinds of owners. And those stores can give “game stores” a bad rap, which it truly unfortunate.

(-Brad
Owner, Gamer’s Keepe

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Dannyalcatraz
If you see a game available online for 50%LGS prices...and that price is the retailer's REGULAR price, its more likely that the retailer is screwing the supplier or its competition

....

But a larger entity, say everyone's second favorite whipping boy Amazon, has no moral obligation to ensure that small businesses remain viable.

No they don't. That's competition. However, the use monopoly/oligopoly power (as opposed to merely being better competitors) to overwhelm smaller companies is, by definition, anticompetitive, and could be an illegal trade practice.

One example of that is using "predatory pricing" - THAT is a crime, first under the Sherman Anti-trust act, then under the UCC, then under numerous state codes. The problem is, regardless of whose law, its a very difficult and expensive crime to prove. As such, it usually gets invoked only in major cases, like when the Japanese automakers were caught undercutting their own prices to get market share in the USA in the 1970's or when certain airlines tried to drive others out of business. Wal-Mart is being investigated for it in several states.

For the LGS's to allege it is easy- most of the retailers undercutting them are major conglomerates who can sell a product below cost indefinitely to gain marketshare/ gain a monopoly. For LGS's to prove predatory pricing- not so much.

Dannyalcatraz
generally speaking, the large retailers have no emotional tie to the hobby-

Not that I buy a lot of game stuff, since I already own everything I'll ever need and then some (and so really don't have a dog in this rather pointless fight), but what is the sticker price of an "emotional tie"?

The point was that a large retailer could drop their entire RPG product line in a day and replace it with something else once they've destroyed the local competion. LGS's tend to sell a lot of other products that large retailers like- comics, certain toys, certain games, and most importantly, certain products that tie into major movies and franchises, like Star Wars, Star Trek, X-Men, etc.

Just a side note as an example: 30 or so years ago, a Mom & Pop toy store was commonplace. Then came chains like Toys-R-Us and Kay-Bee. Now, Wal-Mart is the #1 toyseller in the world, beating the competition by so much, Toys-R-Us is considering divesting itself of its toy stores (CNN)!

Monopolies and Oligopolies are good for things like utilities, not for supporting hobbies.

 

[JesterPoet]

Personally, I think that buying something online is cheating.

This is, quite possibly, one of the most absurd things I've ever heard.