Why I refuse to support my FLGS

[Belen]

So charge me with unethical behavior. Like I give a rat's ass.

So if you do not want to feel guilty about it, then do not shop at stores any longer. If Amazon gives you everything that you need, then use them ONLY.

 

[Belen]

What resource did I use exactly? The book is still there. The storeowner can still sell it, or if it is damaged, return it for another. There is no loss to the storeowner.

You have stolen the owner's time. You have taken value from his store without ever intending to pay for that value. You may have even contributed to a lost sale from a customer who would have paid for a book. For instance, if you were browsing a book and that was the last copy, then another customer who wanted to purchase the book arrived, did not find it, then left.

You would have stolen that sale because you never intended to buy.

The unethical thing here is that you find value in the store and the ability to browse the books it offers; however, you are unwilling to pay for the service. You want your cake and you intend to eat someone else's too.

 

[TheYeti1775]

I think he said he doesn't feel guilty about it.

So my take on it -
Your locations and pricing are the biggest things hurting you.
Staff is running the close third.

Location - How many of you are close to a high school or a college, what about a mall. Doesn't have to be at the mall (higher rent), but near it. Get in a strip mall near your 'Best Buys' and stuff. Higher traffic equal more 'window shoppers' right. Of course you all know this. You would never get a cheap location not even on a bus line would you. Heck move next to a Starbucks, milk off their 'big box'ness that isn't competing with you.

Pricing - this one has been beat to death in this thread. So 'nuff said there.

Staff - same as pricing. They can be a Plus or a really big negative.
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I know it was suggested to have groups of LGS band together to bulk up the orders for lower pricing, still don't see how this couldn't work possiblly. But its a volume thing I understand.
But nothing is stopping you from trying.
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Really I think after what is it now 12/13 pages the issue has been beat to death. And most are starting to get real defensive rather than trying to come up with a viable solution.

One thing that really needs to be thought about though for the brick & mortar is the number one factor for most in coming back is the customer service. Remember the average gamer doesn't need the LGS as vice versa. Because once a book is bought, really there is no support needed. It's not like you 'have' to upgrade regularly with patches, or new hardware. Let me check, yup my Red Box set is still running smooth, Elves are still a class.
So with LGS's it becomes a buyer's market. Find something we need, that the 'big box' can't. This is where your gaming table comes in. Host a Warhammer/Mini's tournement, with a small prize for the winner. Offer lamination of single sheets. DM's are always looking to protect some of their works somehow, what better way then to have something they can wipe off. Offer something that is unique to your shop. That's the only thing I can think of.
Bring back the old Bulletin Board of Local Gamers seeking games/gammers. Haven't seen that in a store in ages. (Guess what you can use that also to mine for potential advertisement and what to stock.)

So is this horse dead yet?
Yeti

 

[Belen]

One thing that really needs to be thought about though for the brick & mortar is the number one factor for most in coming back is the customer service. Remember the average gamer doesn't need the LGS as vice versa.

I totally agree here. Stores have to compete on customer service. People go to a brick and mortar store to get better service and more knowledgeable staff than they can find at Wal-Mart or Amazon. If the stores want to stay afloat then customer serive must be a top priority.

Good service and a wealth of knowledge are the items that will keep a store running despite the higher prices.

Luckily, my FLGS does this.

 

[freebfrost]

Yes.

Then you are a sucker. Businesses have insurance to cover damaged goods, and that includes accidental breakage. That business that you just paid is going to turn around and charge the insurer for the item and get double profit...

Yes. Ed's been in the biz longer than I've been alive, and figured out that the $5000 hit he was taking on some of the high end guitars getting labeled as "used" was too much. Since adopting that policy, he gets sight-unseen orders from around the world, because people know that the guitar they get from Ed is going to be in pristine condition.

So because he's old, that means he's automatically optimizing the amount of profit he is making. That's a fallacious argument.

My question is whether or not he actually sat down and calculated the costs of doing so versus the profit lost, or just went with his gut feeling. Guess which one is most likely?

Every person who buys a car at that dealership pays for wear and tear. Its distributed among all buyers as a part of the dealer's overhead, along with salaries, physical plant, insurance, heating/cooling, utilities, theft, etc., which is reflected in higher base prices. Eventually, the test vehicle is sold as a program car at a greatly lowered price.

But what we're talking about ISN'T a test drive. On a test drive, there's the possibility that the driver may buy the vehicle at the location of the test.

And what determines this possibility? You are saying that everyone driving a car *might* buy that car. I content that is not the case.

What we're talking about is:

1) Consumer A hears about Product A, and decides if he's going to buy it, he is going to buy Product A at Retailer A.
2) Before buying Product A, Consumer A goes to Retailer B to examine Product A already knowing that Product A will be bought elsewhere.
3) By doing so, Consumer A raises Retailer B's costs in relation to Retailer A, and Retailer B cannot recover that cost from anyone else except Consumers B+ C + whomever.

What costs were raised and by how much?

LGS's DO account for that cost, and Online retailers don't have to, and it is driving LGS owners nuts. Online retailers suffer NO wear & tear on their product due to browsing- virtually their entire W&T is shifted to the LGS's bottom line-and the consumers complain that the LGS's aren't matching the online retailers' prices.

Online retailers have to account for mail fraud and damage in transit as well. Do LGS cover that? And just how much of a loss is caused by browsing anyways? How many customers does it take to lower the price of a hardback book by 25%?

2) If the online retailer IS a predatory pricer, they can drop their prices indefinitely, and the cycle can continue until the RPG publisher declares bankruptcy. Most online retailers are NOT after the millions in the business of selling games. They are trying to reach, and eventually monopolize, the OTHER products for which gamers are the core target market- the multi-billion dollar scifi/fantasy/superhero movie/book/tv/game products. The RPGs can be sold at a loss if it gets the gamers to the website to buy "Mighty DragonballZ X-Men vs Alien Predators 2: the video game and DVD box set" at $100/pop.

You are making two important assumptions here. First, you assume that the online retailer is actively aware and trying to get rid of the smaller businesses. While not impossible, this behavior is highly improbable.

Second, you assume that the online retailer can drive down prices indefinitely. They cannot - their ultimate price is determined by the publisher. The publisher is not required to sell it to Amazon, for example, and can actively choose to use another method of distribution.

And products cannot be sold for a loss. That is dumping and is illegal.

 

[freebfrost]

And I have in fact bought gaming books while on vacation. My honeymoon in fact.

Didn't you have better things to do???

 

[TheYeti1775]

And products cannot be sold for a loss. That is dumping and is illegal.

Actually that's only on stock that legal stuff comes into play.

If you remember the time before the Jiffy Lubes and what not your mechanic charged $20-30 to do your oil. They come along advertise $15 for oil. Guess what the favorite local mechanic shop couldn't compete.
So for a short time they take a loss at the new place, go into it now and what are they charging, about $30-40.

 

[freebfrost]

The resource you used therefore is the space made available for you to browse. So using the space without compensating the owner for it, especially if you go and make your purchases elsewhere (online) due to lower prices, can be seen to be unethical. And have you ever considered what you'll do if the store goes out of business? It'd be hypocritical of you to complain if you never supported the store.

So every customer who doesn't buy any item from this seller, regardless of intent, is costing him money. So, if I go with a friend to a gaming store, and he buys a book and I don't, I am an opportunity cost for the seller?

Interesting, but flawed.

The opportunity cost is the cost of making an economic decision. In this case, the opportunity cost is the seller choosing to stock copies of The d20 Guide to Economic Forecasting instead of The World's Largest Stock Market. It does not reflect consumer behavior other than how that behavior reacts based on your economic decision and whether or not you've maximized your profit by choosing wisely or poorly.

Also I think you have a strange idea about returning damaged books. If its damaged during shipping then they can return it. But being damaged by the customers? If all damaged books are able to be returned then ultimately someone is going to pay the cost - usually the customers through increased prices (due to increased cost of doing business).

Ever see the working side of retail stores? You'd be amazed at what gets sent back - and those unscrupulous sellers are increasing our prices as a result! Grrrrr!

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

My local store sells product, that is pretty much the extent of thier service. If they don't have something they will order it for you, but they never have any idea if or when it will show up since it's part of a chain, The Fantasy Shop, and they order from the central store. So if 3-4 weeks go by without my book showing up and I ask them about it they just tell me they can order it again and see what happens. I know its not the fault of the store employee since that is the system they have to work with but why do I keep shopping there for game books? No discounts at all and not enough room for gaming. Its right down the street from me, and I've been buying games and comics there since around 1985, through 3 different owners, and that's the only reason I shop there still as far as I can tell. A habit I guess.

If I go in tomorrow and they don't have my copy of Monsters & Treasures I'm going to tell them not to worry about it and just put it on the shelf when it does show up and I'm going to order it online. No matter what the case I don't think I'll ask them to order any more stuff for me due to that kind of service. It's far quicker for me to order it myself. I'll still stop in there to grab minis and the three comics I still read but that is about it.

If they went under I wouldn't shed any tears, I'd just have to go to a better comics shop for those three comics that is about 5 minutes further away. There isn't really anything wrong with the store, but its just a store. I don't feel any guilt about not supporting them.

 

[JamesDJarvis]

Then you are a sucker. Businesses have insurance to cover damaged goods, and that includes accidental breakage. That business that you just paid is going to turn around and charge the insurer for the item and get double profit...

Not always, every policy doesn't cover relatively low cost single items. Full value is very seldom returned either.

And double profit, not likely.