Why I'm done with 4e

[Garthanos]

hehe

i see a major difference here...people speak of how their adventures are inspired by comics, etc...

My adventures are inspired by The Divine Comedy, Se7en, Natural Born Killers, Mirrors, the SAW series, Dark City, and Paradise Lost.....

hehe



Sanjay

The SAW series and Paradise Lost??? you just gave me the heebee jeebies.

 

[Garthanos]

That isn't my argument at all. My argument goes something like this...

1) Describing how certain 4e power effects look (and function) in-game can be an interesting, creative challenge for the DM.

2) Most, if not all, 4e powers can be described in such a way that they make sense in-game (that is, 4e powers only appear nonsensical if you deliberately choose to narrate them that way).


I have to admit I find the idea of 'angry mold' to be pretty funny.

But it is also kinda stupid. If one of my player's CaGI'd a mold/ooze I'd simply describe it as having chosen to attack that PC out of it's own, free, fungal will.

Let he who is without gamist optimizer tendencies cast the first CaGI.

Of course it does. When a player uses it the target decides to attack his or her PC. No magic or Jedi mind-trickery is involved (it's all done with metafiction).


I like arguing about CaGI!

(the amount of truth in that joke pains me, it honestly does...).

Love this post... I find describing how any attribute could be the basis of attack or defense (for folks who have issues with melee training or warlocks / paladins using charisma or con) incredibly good fun... but it has gotten to be a bit like shooting fish in a barrel. That fish is pretty well skinned and fried to boot.
CaGI could have more challenge. You ought to compile your results.

 

[fuzzlewump]

In my opinion, encounter powers are one of the most narrative-driven aspect of the game, because they correspond so well to so much of the sort of fiction and pop culture that I use to inspire my stories (not necessarily directly in terms of setting elements or plot points, but often thematically), like fantasy and scifi novels, shows and movies, anime and comic books.

Good post. There's something funny about encounter powers indeed. If you imagine elements of an RPG going on a slider that goes between "GAMIST" and "NARRATIVIST" where exactly does an encounter power fall? Thinking about it, these seem like poor descriptors of what the real dichotomy is, but I can't put my finger on what better terms would be. Something like "Narrative Story" versus "Gritty Physics." One corner is that the mechanics are around to help tell a story, and the other corner is that the mechanics model some of kind of physical framework. 4E I would say fits into Narrative Story, as it gives every character class the ability to effect the narrative near equally, though in different ways, but at nearly all times. 3E I would say fits into Gritty Physics. Not every player is going to be useful at every second, and that's how it should be in Gritty Physics. Instead of everyone all being useful at once, it's like everyone takes turns, in a well planned adventure.

Even that's probably a pretty bad dichotomy.

For the record, I enjoyed 3E a lot, and would certainly still be playing it as well if it had similar computer support!

 

[Phaezen]

Pop quiz role playing. The mechanics tell you what happens and you invent a justification.

My preference is that you decide what you want to do and the mechanics simulate the outcome.

It has nothing to do with trouble. It is just a question of whether it is more fun for the mechanics to control the narrative, or the narrative to control the mechanics.

Fortunately in 4e you can have your cake and eat it. A characters powers are mechanics controlling the narrative, but there is also the page 42 stunting system which gives the rules for narrative controlling the mechanics.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

CleverNickname
folk HAVE cut through steel with just thread...they add grit, salt or whatever, and that acts as an abrasive, and they cut through steel bars over a long time!
hence modern jails use bars which contain several bars inside the main bar, so they can rotate and are made with various other tricks to stop such stuff

Anywya on OP:
you either grokk 4th ed or you don't.
Each to his own, but most folk who seem to hate 4th ed I believe would not do so if they came at 4th ed as fresh, new to D&D players.
Nostalgia can be a bliding poison!

 

[billd91]

Anywya on OP:
you either grokk 4th ed or you don't.
Each to his own, but most folk who seem to hate 4th ed I believe would not do so if they came at 4th ed as fresh, new to D&D players.
Nostalgia can be a bliding poison!

Whether it's true or not knowledge of a previous edition could decrease your chances of liking a later one, that's not really nostalgia. It may be a simple preference.

 

[MrGrenadine]

Each to his own, but most folk who seem to hate 4th ed I believe would not do so if they came at 4th ed as fresh, new to D&D players.
Nostalgia can be a bliding poison!

I agree with "each his own", but what you said after that is crap.

Can we put the "people who don't like 4e are nostalgic for older editions" observation in the dustbin with "4e is WoW", please?

 

[StarFyre]

I think it has to do with DM/player style and preference.

With the style of my games, players prefer 3.XE.

If i did pure hack 'n slash combat fests (as my friends experiences with the Living FR sessions are), like Diablo, i think they would prefer 4E...

No such thing as a wrong choice and whether others understand or agree with your reasoning, is meaningless... They aren't in your games, so doesn't matter what they think.

That said; not sure why posting here on reasons why quitting though, would help. it just causes more arguments

Sanjay

 

[FireLance]

Actually, I wonder if the real problem is martial encounter and daily powers, because encounter and daily powers of any other power source shouldn't be difficult to justify even from a simulationist perspective.

If the problem is specific martial encounter and daily powers, then the solution becomes even simpler: just don't use them. It would be like complaining that 3e is a bad system because I didn't like the divine power spell.

 

[BryonD]

Encounter powers aren't narrative-driven??

No, they are not. In the superman stories he uses the powers when they fit the need. In 4E the characters use them when the rules permit.