Why I'm sticking with d20 Modern (instead of Spycraft 2.0)

[Committed Hero]

Finally got hold of a copy. While it looks impressive I can't see me switching over to it, for a couple reasons.

The classes are tailored to modern (that is, 21st century) times. Sure, the equipment pages discuss older items, but the game is clearly aimed for contemporary campaigning. Plus, 30 freaking classes - with room for more? Too much overspecialization.

The skill chapter does have some useful new ideas, but having to keep track of knowledge and synergy bonuses seems like it will bog things down. And while the list is pared down, it gets fattened back up with functionally identical checks under multiple skills.

Haven't read past that, but I can't see my view radically changing. More later.

Later - all the detail is impressive, but I can't see it streamlining any facet of a typical adventure.

 

[Templeton580]

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[Denaes]

To answer the title to your post, I'd stick with d20 Modern just because it's what you enjoy.

If you have the book, mine it. The vast majority of the feats and the combat system can just plop into your game.

You can't tell me that you would rather run d20 Modern's unarmed combat than Spycrafts, can you? Not with a straight face.

There are some good gems like how to remove AoO's in a simple yet effective way, having two half actions rather than 1 standard & 1 move, IMO a better basic combat system which is nearly the same but assumes that the players are competent rather than clumsy oafs who despite their Mob background would never qualify for that position. The Feats really feed into this "competent" idea and suppliment abilities and there are much much more feats.

The Action Dice in SC2.0 is absolutely superb, but may not fit in your d20 Modern game as it might be too liberating and cinematic for your game.

The Origins could fit in with little effort at all as well.

Personally I think Spycraft works just fine for a Modern competent professional game. I intend to use d20 Moderns basic classes for a less spy/mission centric campaign

 

[Henry]

Hero, I changed your thread title to be a little less confusing, because I'm pretty sure you're talking about "getting hold of" Spycraft 2 (with your statements about classes and gear) but sticking with Modern. If I'm horribly wrong, feel free to let me know, or just change the thread title to be correct.

 

[Old One]

Hero, I changed your thread title to be a little less confusing, because I'm pretty sure you're talking about "getting hold of" Spycraft 2 (with your statements about classes and gear) but sticking with Modern. If I'm horribly wrong, feel free to let me know, or just change the thread title to be correct.

Help! Help! Moderator repression and thought police !

~ OO

PS - Have you checked out Grim Tales yet, CH? Good, good stuff!

~ OO

 

[Gomez]

What I really like about Spycraft over d20 Modern are the Origin rules with Talents and Specialties. While I agree that the classes are mainly focused on a spy like game. They are not as restrictive as the Spycraft 1.0 classes. You could easily do a Western or Pulp type game with the base classes. And yes the rules are a bit thick but you could easily trim them down I think.

Plus weapon and campaign qualities are the bomb!

 

[Denaes]

What I really like about Spycraft over d20 Modern are the Origin rules with Talents and Specialties. While I agree that the classes are mainly focused on a spy like game. They are not as restrictive as the Spycraft 1.0 classes. You could easily do a Western or Pulp type game with the base classes. And yes the rules are a bit thick but you could easily trim them down I think.

There are TONS of rules.

I ran last weekend and we used like 15% of them. You're supposed to use about 20% of them, but we didn't get into weapon tags (special abilities/penalties for weapons) and the players screwed themselves on gear by just picking stuff and not taking common items.

Most of the classes could also be used in a fantasy game. File off the names and see how the abilities fit.

Soldier is an awful lot like a knight/warrior of some sort.

Wheelman can be a cavalier or other such animal/contraption driver.

Faceman is the ultimate conman/spy

Scout is like a Ranger a bit.

Sleuth is like a detective sort.

The advocate is like the ultimate socialite/diplomat

The Intruder is like a Theif/ninja

Yeah, a few mods might need to be made and I'm not sure a hacker would fit in anywere but the modern age, but the classes really aren't as specific as they sound. Plus each class has a set of abilities that they can start choosing about 5th level so they're not each 100% the same.

 

[Committed Hero]

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of good stuff in Spycraft 2 that I will use for d20 Modern. It's just that given the amount of good things said by reasonable folks here, I was surprised at how complex the rules have become.

I houseruled the d20M nonlethal combat rules long ago. I liked GT but not enough to switch.

 

[Gomez]

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of good stuff in Spycraft 2 that I will use for d20 Modern. It's just that given the amount of good things said by reasonable folks here, I was surprised at how complex the rules have become.

I houseruled the d20M nonlethal combat rules long ago. I liked GT but not enough to switch.

Yes they are complex. Maybe too complex. But I am still trying to digest all the rules. And as for the skill system (Spycraft 2.0), I thought that they were going to be streamlined. But looking at them, it appears to be much more complicated than Spycraft 1.0 or Modern.

 

[King of Old School]

The thing with the skill system is, the complexity is there for people who require strict definition in the rules. If you're happy to make decisions on the fly, the pages and pages of skill checks can be seen as examples of how to apply the rules but not as something which must be followed 100% precisely, 100% of the time. IOW, you can match a skill which seems to fit -- and the skills are overly broad, and the checks overlap with multiple skills, for precisely this reason -- with the most appropriate stat modifier for the task at hand, and just roll. Other people have said that it's easier to grasp if you've played Storyteller before, and I think there might be something to that idea.

KoOS