Why is Con so useless?

[Number48]

My original scenario was, quite simply, you have about a day and a locked door. Figure a way. Burning down the house might get you in the door, but I doubt the group is going to agree that's the best way to deal with a locked door. Sure there are possible ways to use Con to accomplish your objective, but they aren't the ways you are going to use. Even in getting the guard drunk, I think Chr is more the stat to use. After all, you don't need to outdrink the guard to get the key when you have a group of people, you just need to convince him to drink with you.

Remember, the scenario I set up was that the first step was to get through a locked door. Just that. I don't have to beat my head against the wall to come up with fairly straightforward ways to deal with it using any of the other 5 stats. I also didn't wrack my brains to contrive a situation where Con wasn't useful. I'm sure I can list half a dozen common gameplay scenarios.

The question isn't so much COULD you find a way to use Con in a given scenario, but WOULD you use Con as a way to deal with a scenario in which you have choices.

 

[Tallifer]

This thread opens with a strange post. Nobody ever dumps Constitution, so it clearly is not useless at all.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The thing is, you kind of have a point: Con is passive.

That doesn't mean that Con is unimportant. It just means that it serves a "defense" role.

That role is important. Wisdom serves almost the same role on the mental side of the stat block.

It's sort of...Strength (or Cha) is what adds to your die rolls. Dex (or Int) is what your enemies need to overcome. Con (or Wis) is what happens when your enemies DO overcome your first line of defense.

That's an important role to play, though it might not exactly be active.

 

[Quickleaf]

The thing is, you kind of have a point: Con is passive.

That doesn't mean that Con is unimportant. It just means that it serves a "defense" role.

That role is important. Wisdom serves almost the same role on the mental side of the stat block.

It's sort of...Strength (or Cha) is what adds to your die rolls. Dex (or Int) is what your enemies need to overcome. Con (or Wis) is what happens when your enemies DO overcome your first line of defense.

That's an important role to play, though it might not exactly be active.

Yeah that's accurate to say that Wisdom and Constitution would less frequently be called upon as active stats when the PCs are attempting a proactive goal. That is a far cry from "useless".

[MENTION=6688047]Number48[/MENTION]
How would you like to see Constitution handled?

 

[Hussar]

I've always thought sorcerers (3e) should use Con not Cha as the base stat. After all, they're supposed to be drawing the magic from themselves - shouldn't that be based off of Con?

 

[Minigiant]

Oh! So there's a mechanic, common to all infernolocks (not just the ones who took Power X/Feat Y/Paragon Path Z), where an infernolock who needs a damage boost can "overchannel" and zorch herself? After all, if Constitution works by increasing your capacity to channel without frying, you should be able to channel even more if you're willing to sizzle a bit.

...No?

Like I said. I don't object to Con being important for the infernolock, but it should work by mitigating nasty side effects, not as a direct attack stat.

I kind of hoped warlock would have a natural overchannel.

I see the warlock's physically channeled magic equivalent to a snake's venom or a cat's claws. The healthier they are, the more the pact patron can use them.

I've always thought sorcerers (3e) should use Con not Cha as the base stat. After all, they're supposed to be drawing the magic from themselves - shouldn't that be based off of Con?

To me, sorcerers don't cast through their blood. Their blood is just the battery for their natural magic. They cast by commanding and forcing their will (charisma) on their natural magic. Fluff wise this can be anything from forcing their blood to teach them magic, self hypnotism, or straight intimating/charming magic into happening. Although I have no problem with them gaining new spells with Constitution.

I'd actually give all character 2 important abilities, one for thee strength of the source (spells per day), the other for the power of the user (spell level and DCs).

Wizard:
Source-Wisdom. Memorization of arcane formula
Power-Intelligence. Knowledge of arcane secrets

Cleric:
Source-Charisma. Channel of divine magic from personal connection with deity
Power- Wisdom. Intuition and willpower through faith

Sorcerer:
Source- Constitution. Bloodline strength
Power-Charisma. Control of one's magical blood.

Warlock:
Source-Charisma. Diplomacy with one's patron
Power-Constitution. Being a conduit of the patron's power

Druid:
Source-Constitution. Channel of primal magic through body
Power- Wisdom. Intuition and willpower through connection with nature

 

[The Shadow]

There can be only one answer to the question asked by this thread:

Mu.

 

[The Shadow]

I've always thought sorcerers (3e) should use Con not Cha as the base stat. After all, they're supposed to be drawing the magic from themselves - shouldn't that be based off of Con?

That's one interpretation. I've tended to think of sorcerers as being natural magic-sensitives, aware of the flow of magic around them. In which case you could even make the case for Wis, though Cha will do. (Representing the willpower to shape the flows you can sense.)

Thing is, one would think there would be natural synergy between levels of wizard and sorcerer... though this synergy was more than completely lacking in 3e, as it was actively stupid to combine the two classes. Trailblazer addresses this to some extent.