Why is it so difficult to find good groups?

[francisca]

One other thing: In general, I only game with friends. Now, it could be I'm new to a group, and maybe know one guy, but eventually, I either become friends with most of the group, or I bail.

The few times i have tried to join a group where my only contact with those people was at the table, I didn't last.

I guess the bottom line is: If you aren't someone I'd invite over for something else besides gaming, I probably don't want to game with you anyway. And if I get to the point where the only game in town is with people I wouldn't otherwise be hanging out with, I guess I won't play. I'm not so obsessed with D&D (or any game) that I'm going to spend tens of hours a month at a table with a bunch of people I really don't like.

EDIT: Convention games are the exception, of course, though I've become fast friends with many people I've gamed with at conventions, as well.

 

[Piratecat]

When putting together a new group, especially when considering adding "strangers" to the group, you should probably find out WHY this new person is without a group. There is some truth to what a prior poster said about good groups remaining stable and not needing new players. They also don't tend to lose good players (except for the normal reasons, such as leaving gaming altogether, etc). Watch out for players who are looking for a new group because they were asked to leave a prior group or players who have a hard time maintaining a stable group.

We only game regularly with people that we enjoy hanging out with outside the game. If they can't have a conversation that doesn't involve gaming, we'd rather not have them in our group.

 

[shadzar]

I never said anything about lying. It's perfectly okay to express a preference. Just don't join their group and then spend your time bitching about the system; it's rude, and it will see you being uninvited.

As for whether you should join a group playing a game you don't like: it's about building a network.

If you join that 4e group, that gives you a handful of player contacts you didn't have before. Chances are, each of them knows a number of other gamers, giving you a link to yet more potential players for the game you do want to play, and so on.

If you don't join the 4e group, you lose out on both the players you would have met in that group, and also on any potential introduction to their "friend who plays Pathfinder".

Basically, the more specific and picky you are about your choice of game, the harder you will find it to join a group. Conversely, the more people you have in your network, the better your odds.

Edit: I forgot to say: of course, you might find yourself in a place where 4e is literally the only game in town. In that case, your choice is simple: learn to like the game they play, or don't play.

Didn't say you did, but essentially that is what you are doing is lying to yourself about the game when you "suck it up and play it". That will often show and might not be something to make the group accepting of you to, as the other poster suggested, convert them to a game of your liking.

Also seems like more of an attack even if done with the utmost courtesy. Sitting in a game that people are all having fun in just to try to convert them to another game.

Even your edit seems like a bully or force tactic even when using it on yourself. "learn to like the game", but I have discussed that in another thread in regard to "working to make the consumer to like the changes".

It is just not something I would suggest. Better for all to be happy then one unhappy person that will lower the happiness or enjoyment level of the game for all.

Speaking of "networks", if finding a game this day and age with all the "networking" done such as this forming having a "looking for players" section, and the multitude of websites, it still seems a problem exists since the size of ones network now is MUCH larger than those they can initially find in person.

So if there is no game in your area that you like, you are just in a bad area, or maybe there is people, but not the time. Either way joining in a game out of desperation, will likely resolve less than good results for most people either the new member, or the group they are joining.

 

[francisca]

One other thing: In general, I only game with friends. Now, it could be I'm new to a group, and maybe know one guy, but eventually, I either become friends with most of the group, or I bail.

The few times i have tried to join a group where my only contact with those people was at the table, I didn't last.

I guess the bottom line is: If you aren't someone I'd invite over for something else besides gaming, I probably don't want to game with you anyway. And if I get to the point where the only game in town is with people I wouldn't otherwise be hanging out with, I guess I won't play. I'm not so obsessed with D&D (or any game) that I'm going to spend tens of hours a month at a table with a bunch of people I really don't like.

EDIT: Convention games are the exception, of course, though I've become fast friends with many people I've gamed with at conventions, as well.

We only game regularly with people that we enjoy hanging out with outside the game. If they can't have a conversation that doesn't involve gaming, we'd rather not have them in our group.

PC: I dunno if you should be happy or concerned we're in sync.

 

[nerfherder]

Well, there are degrees of "don't like." There are systems I'm not fond of, but I'll give almost anything a try on the player side; a sufficiently good and dedicated GM can make up for a multitude of sins.

A couple of years ago I was at Gencon, sat at a table that was just winding up a game, when a DM came over and asked if anyone wanted to play in his Golden Age superhero M&M game (as one player had dropped out) after this one was finished. I'm not a fan of the genre, nor really interested in M&M (although I have played in and enjoyed a couple of sessions), but the DM had a bit of a reputation and I said yes.

I had an absolute ball.

Thanks for the game, Piratecat

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

2. FLGS play.

This is more of a stereotype in my experience. Based on the now-defunct Gamemasters Guild of Waukegan (Illinois) and the ENWorld Chicago Gamedays at Games Plus (Mount Prospect, IL), I find the majority of FLGS gamers do not fit the stereotype.

Sure there are jerks. And I don't put up with them. But often in that situation I've found that a jerk can be molded into a good player. Allowing them in your game does not require you to put up with their crap.

I'm lucky to have a good home group that has survived the (almost) every Friday routine for 28 years, while also meeting alot of good people at the FLGS.

Anyway, to answer your question. In my opinion it is hard to find a group because people look as gamers first. They are too concerned with what the game is (style, genre, system, etc). They are too concerned with finding the game first. Find friends first, the game will follow.

 

[Dungeoneer]

Good stuff here! I've tended to solve my difficulties finding a good game to play in by being the DM. But I would love to find a good group where I could actually be a player. I'm glad to hear people saying that a good group is one where you can talk about things other than gaming - I'd kinda felt that way but thought maybe it was just my personal preference speaking.

 

[Dungeoneer]

This is more of a stereotype in my experience. Based on the now-defunct Gamemasters Guild of Waukegan (Illinois) and the ENWorld Chicago Gamedays at Games Plus (Mount Prospect, IL), I find the majority of FLGS gamers do not fit the stereotype.

In my experience it IS true. So... who wins?

When I first decided to get into gaming I tried the FLGS thing. It was every bit the awkward, off-putting and painful experience you read about. People who wore trench coats, people who smelled bad, people who cheated (at D&D!!!), people who wouldn't stop quoting their favorite show...

I've actually had better luck finding gamers on Craigslist than I have at my FLGS.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

In my experience it IS true. So... who wins?

When I first decided to get into gaming I tried the FLGS thing. It was every bit the awkward, off-putting and painful experience you read about. People who wore trench coats, people who smelled bad, people who cheated (at D&D!!!), people who wouldn't stop quoting their favorite show...

I've actually had better luck finding gamers on Craigslist than I have at my FLGS.

Trench coats? I think you're being a bit judgemental. Everyone goes through goofy fads.

Smelled bad? Don't sit near them. OK, this one is bad. But I've experienced this at GenCon more than I ever did at an FLGS.

Cheaters? I had one of those at GGoW. It was awesomely hilarious for me to play fair as DM and watch him fail miserably over and over despite his cheating. Eventually he began to watch the more experienced players and learned how to play more intelligently. He stopped relying on cheating.

Quoting a favorite show? Don't show up to my house on a Friday night then!

I think the problem is less that FLGS people are "weird" than it is that gamers are self-conscious and project onto other gamers a very judgemental attitude. "If everyone else at the FLGS was weird..."

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Not really surprising. Gaming is a social activity, so finding a gaming group has the initial hurdle of finding new friends (or at least people you can enjoy hanging out with). That's an issue that most people find daunting when their social situation changes because of marriages/divorces/moving/etc.

Throw on top of that gaming style preferences, whether that's a specific ruleset, or genre, or whatever, and it's not an easy task, really.