Why is it so important?

[Merlion]

People have complained about the various and sundry problems of the Vancian system, especially as regards Wizards, for as long as it has existed.

Various companies have published alternatives too the Vancian system for some time because of that. Even in 2nd edition skills and powers there were variant non-Vancian magic systems. Thats why Monte Cook didn't use it in Arcana Evolved. Just look at all the D20/OGL games that have non-Vancian systems.

Even the inclusion of the Sorcerer in 3e was a nod to this to some extent.

So, if you havent seen the complaints, you may not have been paying attention. Or you may simply like to try and invalidate peoples excitement over/liking of new content, for some odd reason..

 

[broghammerj]

I'd say it's due to the lag time after encounters. Who wants to wait a day between each big encounter? It leads spell casters to "over husband" spells too. I know I do it sometimes with my cleric.

I think having a system that allows for a few big per day abilities and some mild to moderately useful per encounter abilities would be good. Keeps the flow of the game up better.

Just my two cents.

The problem that I have with statements like these is how does it really affect you? Yes, the story line is fragmented and not ideal, but it doesn't REALLY affect gameplay. If our group told the DM we rest for the night, five minutes of real times passes and we are back off to adventuring again. The rare exception would be if we had a random encounter. It may break up the story we are trying to tell, but doesn't really affect actual playing.

 

[Sun Knight]

Low level wizards have no choice. If you only have 3 or 4 spell slots, they are going to go quick. And thats what the designers are apparently shooting for...giving a wizard magic-related resources apart from just fire and forget spells.

That is why my wizard tends to memorize spells that have durations for hours, like Mage Armor. A spell that has lasting power don't you know. When my wizard is in a hard fight he often has an Armor Class no lower than 20 and heads in with a sword or his staff. In fact most of his kills have been done in melee, not with a crossbow.

I've seen all your going on about crossbows and melee but the point is you should be able to play your class in its role throughout the "adventuring day", rather than having to either stop and rest, or resort to basically not acting as a wizard anymore.

Acting like a wizard? You expect me to play the stereotypical wizard with a pointy hat and floppy robes? Sorry, but I gave up on that type of wizards decades ago. I play wizards who are just as physically self sufficient as any other character in the party and use my spells not as one shot booms, but long lasting durations that keep my character and my party alive.

What you prespose is most likely to only lead to frustration of the wizard player. And the usual stop and rest every few minutes leads to the other players resenting those playing spellcasters.

Nope, not at all. My character rests when the rest of the party rests and if he is out of spells for the day before then, then he is out and I have him use his other abilities. I don't play one trick ponies, don't you know. In fact the next feat he is getting is going to be Two Weapon Combat.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I try to figure something out that is highly speculative but incorporates some things we heard about (just without the necessary details to understand how the system really looks like.)

Wizard prepares spells (possible less than today), say Magic Missile.
As long as he has Magic Missile prepared, he can fire a bolt of force as a ranged touch attack, dealing 1d6 + caster level points of damage per round.
He can also cast, once per encounter, a a Magic Missile dealing 1d6 points of damage per 2 caster levels that automatically hits.
And once per day, he can cast a Magic Missile that deals 1d6+caster level damage to 1 target per caster level, automatically hitting each target. (This use might remove the spells from his list of prepared spells, or make it impossible to use the spell again during this encounter.)

A Wizard prepares Mount (say, in his "utility silo" spell slot, if that how it works):
As long as he has it prepared, he can do the following things:
Summon a Heavy Warhorse or Warpony once per encounter that lasts for one minute, serving as his combat mount (or that of another character?)
Summon one Light Horse, Pony or Mule once per day, that lasts for two hours per level. (This use might or might not remove the spells from his list of prepared spells, or this use is exclusive with the other)

So you still have to decide: Which spell do I prepare? When do I use which benefit from the spell? When do I use the more powerful effect?)

This might not at all be how it will work, but it gives at least an example how using 1/encounter abilities can work in the great scheme without entirely removing resource management.

There is also a further alternative: Maybe spell casting times increase for some spells, which means that per day resource management ends up into per encounter resource management.

Interesting speculation. Hopefully what appears in the books will be just as good.

 

[Merlion]

The problem that I have with statements like these is how does it really affect you? Yes, the story line is fragmented and not ideal, but it doesn't REALLY affect gameplay. If our group told the DM we rest for the night, five minutes of real times passes and we are back off to adventuring again. The rare exception would be if we had a random encounter. It may break up the story we are trying to tell, but doesn't really affect actual playing.

You missed all the posts about suspension of disbelief and versimilitude apparently.

And it does affect gameplay. It means you have to decide wether to set a watch and who to do it. And it means you have to re prepare spells etc.

 

[broghammerj]

You missed all the posts about suspension of disbelief and versimilitude apparently.

And it does affect gameplay. It means you have to decide wether to set a watch and who to do it. And it means you have to re prepare spells etc.

Sorry I did. I skipped to the second page lol.....I am racing off to work.

 

[Sun Knight]

That is why we don't rest after every encounter. We just go on. If my wizard is out of spells, so be it, but very rarely is he out of spells after a day's worth of adventuring.

 

[Merlion]

That is why my wizard tends to memorize spells that have durations for hours, like Mage Armor. A spell that has lasting power don't you know. When my wizard is in a hard fight he often has an Armor Class no lower than 20 and heads in with a sword or his staff. In fact most of his kills have been done in melee, not with a crossbow.



Acting like a wizard? You expect me to play the stereotypical wizard with a pointy hat and floppy robes? Sorry, but I gave up on that type of wizards decades ago. I play wizards who are just as physically self sufficient as any other character in the party and use my spells not as one shot booms, but long lasting durations that keep my character and my party alive.



Nope, not at all. My character rests when the rest of the party rests and if he is out of spells for the day before then, then he is out and I have him use his other abilities. I don't play one trick ponies, don't you know. In fact the next feat he is getting is going to be Two Weapon Combat.

First off, I never said anything about pointy hats. To me Wizard=Magic. Wizards accomplish things through supernatural power, not physical means. Thats the point.

Wizards as it stands dont HAVE "other abilities". they have spells. You can choose to take combat feats etc with your wizard, but they arent going to do him much good. Now of course your going to argue that and go on about all the stuff your wizard can do without spells. Fine, whatever...but thats not what most people want out of playing a wizard. They want to do magic.

If the current system works great for you, great. but thats not the case for everyone.
Coming in and attempting to invalidate peoples desire to be able to do that by going on about how much you enjoy your "melee wizard" or whatever is a bit silly.

 

[hong]

Acting like a wizard? You expect me to play the stereotypical wizard with a pointy hat and floppy robes? Sorry, but I gave up on that type of wizards decades ago.

If the rules do not support the most obvious use that people want to put them to, then it doesn't matter how many non-obvious uses they do support.

 

[Merlion]

Sorry I did. I skipped to the second page lol.....I am racing off to work.

Sorry if I was a bit sharp then